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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard, what is it? (Read 16105 times)
MGTOM
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #15 - Feb 13th, 2017 at 5:37pm
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A friend has  a #3 Gallery with no caliber ID. It appears to be a 22LR but our first shot resulted in a split case. Did they make them in WRF? A 22WRM slides in nicely but is too long.
Tom
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #16 - Feb 13th, 2017 at 6:39pm
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MGTOM wrote on Feb 13th, 2017 at 5:37pm:
A friend has  a #3 Gallery with no caliber ID. It appears to be a 22LR but our first shot resulted in a split case. Did they make them in WRF? A 22WRM slides in nicely but is too long.
Tom


No WRF listed in the '85 catalog, but 22 Extra Long was available; however, its case was same dia. as other 22 RFs, used heel bullet.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #17 - Feb 13th, 2017 at 10:09pm
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MGTOM wrote on Feb 13th, 2017 at 5:37pm:
A friend has  a #3 Gallery with no caliber ID. It appears to be a 22LR but our first shot resulted in a split case. Did they make them in WRF? A 22WRM slides in nicely but is too long.
Tom


The Ballard #3 was originally listed for the .22 Short and the .22 Long. Later it was offered in the .22 Extra Long, and still later yet it was offered in the .22 Maynard Centerfire, and the .22 Winchester Centerfire. I've never seen one in either of these CF calibers myself, but they were cataloged options.
None of the Ballard #3 rifles had the caliber marked on them for some reason. All other Ballard rifles made during the pre 1882 era JM Marlin marked didn't normally have a caliber stamp either. After incorporating and becoming Marlin Firearms Co in 1882 they began marking calibers on all but the #3 model.
As I mentioned above one of my #3 Ballards was rebored to .25 Stevens RF, but the Stevens name, and caliber marking is under the forearm, so not visible. It might be your friend's Ballard is rebored to the Stevens .25 RF.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #18 - Feb 14th, 2017 at 3:05pm
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I have more info to report and a question.

I measured the chamber diameter and the bore size, with gage pins. Whats left of the bore, measures .223 (not the groove) and you can still see rifling. the chamber measures .234 at about the depth of a 22 Long case. It's not really safe to fire 22LR because the case doesn't seal the chamber (I fired 2 shots) and you get blow back.

Now, my question, does anyone have the bore and case specification for the 22 XL?

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #19 - Feb 14th, 2017 at 4:01pm
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The .22 Extra Long is identical in every way to other .22RF Short, Long, and Long Rifle cartridges, except for length, which is 1.16" long. Same diameter, same bore size, same rim, etc.
With a .234" chamber it should be within spec.
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #20 - Feb 14th, 2017 at 4:31pm
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The current (SAMMI) chambers are suppose to be .227 at the front of the chamber. Most unfired 22LR cases will measure ~.224. The Remingtons that I fired in it measure .2235 at that point. And they would not seal, at all.

This barrel appears to be very warn. I'll reline it, in time but, I'll replace it with a target barrel now and let my wife shoot it in our matches.

Frank

  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #21 - Feb 14th, 2017 at 5:44pm
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Was looking at Cartridges of the World, so should have guessed their dimensions could be incorrect. But I may have misread it, as I just looked and they list neck diameter at .225" and base diameter at .234".
Since you're relining it, I guess it wont matter, as it will all be good when you're done!
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #22 - Feb 14th, 2017 at 10:25pm
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Could your barrel be chambered for a Winchester 22 Automatic? Almost the same length as a 22 LR and case size same as a 22WRF
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #23 - Feb 14th, 2017 at 11:13pm
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The 22WRF is .244 in diameter so, it's to big.

I guess that it's just wore that much (.227 out to .234). If you take .007 off the bore size, too, that comes to .216 and that might be about right, too.

Frank
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #24 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 12:09am
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frnkeore wrote on Feb 14th, 2017 at 11:13pm:
The 22WRF is .244 in diameter so, it's to big.

I guess that it's just wore that much (.227 out to .234). If you take .007 off the bore size, too, that comes to .216 and that might be about right, too.

Frank


Seems like this gun spent part of its hard life in a shooting gallery. What do you make of those (apparent) wrench marks on the "tulip"?  What reason could there be for unscrewing the brl?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #25 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 1:23am
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Redsetter wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 12:09am:
[quote author=7C6874717F75687F1A0 link=1486853938/23#23 date=1487131990]
Seems like this gun spent part of its hard life in a shooting gallery. What do you make of those (apparent) wrench marks on the "tulip"?  What reason could there be for unscrewing the brl?


I doubt a shooting gallery would have ever had a set trigger gun. Considering this gun is well over 125 years old at the newest, and maybe older; I'd say it's faired pretty well. Those marks look like vise jaw marks, and I've seen a lot worse than those few little marks on old guns. Seems .22 rimfires got the worst treatment.
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #26 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 9:43am
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marlinguy wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 1:23am:
I doubt a shooting gallery would have ever had a set trigger gun. 


You think?  Your perspicuity amazes me.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #27 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 10:28am
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Redsetter wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 9:43am:
marlinguy wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 1:23am:
I doubt a shooting gallery would have ever had a set trigger gun. 


You think?  Your perspicuity amazes me.


Maybe I'm thinking of something different than you when I read "shooting gallery"? Shooting galleries are usually composed of a lot of cheap .22 rifles. In the early days they were often .22 pumps, or bolt actions. Single shots might be used very early in the public shooting galleries, but they were usually still very cheap models, not an expensive Ballard with special order set triggers.
And if you're referring to one of the big shooting indoor ranges like Zettler's in NY City, the guns would be owned by the shooters, and not the range. Those guns were far more specialized than Frank's Ballard, and either exotic bench guns,  or offhand style rifles.
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #28 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:12am
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I would think that the Ballard #3's had a "nitch" and I'm not sure exactly how they even fit into one, either.

After handling mine, I found that it is very heavy for a 22, it wouldn't really be a woods rifle. With their weight and barrel size, I would expect them to be more of a basic or starter 22 target rifle but, the sights don't say that. 

Maybe they where just one of the "good" early 22's and after MFC came out with their lever action rifles, they didn't see a need for a starter 22 SS and hoped that people would opt for their lever 22's.

Does anyone have any idea of how many #3 might have been made?

Anyway, I've got my DST #3 and I'm very happy with it. After all, I'll only walk from the car to the bench with it Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: Ballard, what is it?
Reply #29 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:45am
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frnkeore wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:12am:
...hoped that people would opt for their lever 22's.
Frank


They weren't wrong about that!  Anyway, Stevens had the "starter 22" market sewed up tight.
  
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