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Sendaro
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Vintage Winchester primers
Feb 2nd, 2017 at 6:39pm
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Recently I acquired a sealed bow of 100 Winchester primes. I know that they are old, but just how old and what time period they fit in are a question I'd like some help with. Being that they are marked for both Black or Smokeless powder makes me think that they were made well before WW, maybe even before WW1. Would like to hear from any one who may help with placing the time period.
                            thank you, Sendaro
  
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notlwonk
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #1 - Feb 2nd, 2017 at 7:24pm
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I have a sheet of Winchester primer data from  " (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)" dated 2/9/2004. And no that link no longer works. It shows that the no. 2 1/2W primers were made from 1894 to 1920 and were designed for medium to large rifles. The "W" denotes that it's for smokeless. Sometimes, you can use this link to 22 Cal. boxes to guesstimate vintage based on design, graphics and name changes that various companies have undergone.  " (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)"
  
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BP
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #2 - Feb 2nd, 2017 at 7:55pm
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Phil Sharpe's Complete Guide To Handloading has some interesting info about how the fit of Win brass primer pockets and Win primers were different than the fit of Rem brass primer pockets and Rem primers back in those days.
  

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Sendaro
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #3 - Feb 2nd, 2017 at 8:32pm
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Thanks for the information. Think there is any collectors value to these?


              Sendaro
  
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notlwonk
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2017 at 9:14pm
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Sendaro wrote on Feb 2nd, 2017 at 8:32pm:
Thanks for the information. Think there is any collectors value to these?


              Sendaro

I've tried to sell empty boxes on ebay from a later era and I'm lucky if I get $3 each.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #5 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 10:20am
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Have a number of full boxes of primers from various makers in the pre WWI era. I collect UMC ammo and ammo boxes. I ended up with a lot of primers and bullets from most other makers also, as they have always been so cheap. The only non ammo things that seem to go high in value are original full boxes of paper patched bullets. Only have a couple of those, as they always go pretty high.
  

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John Boy
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #6 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 12:21pm
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With the transition of Kings & DuPont's Lesmok Semi Smokeless in approximately 1894 and then Smokeless in the US, the black powder shooters complained loudly that black powder primers on the market wouldn't ignite the semi & smokeless powers on the market.  Semi Smokeless powders were stopped being produced primarily in 1920 and a little later
So as to the age of the primers, it fits into the period late 1890's to 1920.  Exact age?  Might want identity the lot number and call Winchester

Note: The first smokeless powders were made in 1846, when both nitrocellulose (gun cotton) and nitroglycerine were first developed in Europe.  When exactly introduced in the US?  But Browning invented the Winchester 1894 for smokeless propellants with the dual locking lugs
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #7 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 1:08pm
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Here are 3 different boxes from my collection. The smokeless ones are dated, 1949 & 1951 but the BP aren't. I assume that the dates are when they where purchased so, I can't say when the boxes may have first or last, come on to the market.

It appears the both Rem & Western, use the same sizing numbers at one time. When did Win take over Western?

Any help on dating the BP primers would be appreciated.

Also, since my BP primers have a suffix of "B" could the OP's primers "W" mean "White" powder?

Frank
« Last Edit: Feb 3rd, 2017 at 1:18pm by frnkeore »  

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BP
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #8 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 3:37pm
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Quote:
With the transition of Kings & DuPont's Lesmok Semi Smokeless in approximately 1894 and then Smokeless in the US, the black powder shooters complained loudly that black powder primers on the market wouldn't ignite the semi & smokeless powers on the market.  Semi Smokeless powders were stopped being produced primarily in 1920 and a little later
So as to the age of the primers, it fits into the period late 1890's to 1920.  Exact age?  Might want identity the lot number and call Winchester

Note: The first smokeless powders were made in 1846, when both nitrocellulose (gun cotton) and nitroglycerine were first developed in Europe.  When exactly introduced in the US?  But Browning invented the Winchester 1894 for smokeless propellants with the dual locking lugs

John Boy,
Dual locking lugs on a Winchester 1894?
  

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BP
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #9 - Feb 3rd, 2017 at 3:44pm
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Frank,

Winchester filed for bankruptcy in 1929, and was purchased by Franklin W Olin and his two sons Spencer T and John M, who owned the Western Cartridge Company, in 1931.
  

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waterman
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #10 - Feb 4th, 2017 at 12:47pm
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There is a color picture of a label for Winchester primers (same colors as your box) on the back cover of WRACo Cartridges, Vol. 2.  Book dates from 2002.  No information about back cover photos in the book.

My guess is pre-WW1 era.  Maybe 1910?
  
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #11 - Feb 4th, 2017 at 1:35pm
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You might send a photo to Ward's Auctions.  They deal in old ammo and other collectibles.  They could probably let you know if they are valuable.

Jack
  

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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #12 - Feb 4th, 2017 at 3:37pm
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I posted a general inquiry on the International Ammunition Association forum.  Boxes of primers like that are quite collectible.

Further digging says the 2 1/2 W was cataloged from the 1890s to the early 1920s, maybe not produced after WW1.  Commercially, it seems to have been loaded in the BP loads of larger BP cartridges; 38/56, 38/72 etc.
« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2017 at 4:43pm by waterman »  
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John Boy
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #13 - Feb 4th, 2017 at 4:19pm
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John Boy,
Dual locking lugs on a Winchester 1894?

Sorry for the typo - make that the Winchester 1982  Embarrassed
  
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Re: Vintage Winchester primers
Reply #14 - Feb 4th, 2017 at 5:29pm
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Make of it what you will...   the following is from Winchester Catalog No. 82, 1920 Edition:

No. 1W.     Win. Improved Primers for Black and Smokeless Powders.     Adapted to .32 Extra Long, .22, .32, .38 and .44 Win., 38 Extra Long, .44 Evans and .45-70 Marlin Cartridges.
     
No. 1 1/2W.     Win. Improved Primers for Black and Smokeless Powders.     Adapted to .32 S.&W., .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .38 Short Colt, .38 M.&H., .38 Long Colt, .38 S.&W., .41 Short Colt, .41 Long Colt and .44 M.&H. Cartridges

No. 2 1/2W.     Win. Improved Primers for Black and Smokeless Powders.     Adapted to Military and Sporting Cartridges.

No. 3W.     Win. Improved Copper Primers for Black and Smokeless Powder Cartridges and New Rival and Nublack Paper Shells.

New No. 4.     Win. Primers for Win. “Leader” and “Repeater” Shells with Smokeless Powders.

No. 5.     Win. Improved Primers.     Adapted to .25-35 Win. And .30 Win. Cartridges.

No. 5 1/2.     Win. Improved Primers.     Adapted to .32 Win. Special, .33 Win., and the Win. High Velocity Cartridges .38-55, .45-70, .45-90, and .50-110.
« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2017 at 5:35pm by BP »  

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