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Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet (Read 9217 times)

jmh Participating Member Offline Posts: 23 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2016	Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Feb 1^st, 2017 at 3:11pm	Print Post
	Having some accuracy issues with Winchester high wall/45-70. My load is 27 gn 2400 & the 325 gn Hornady plastic tip jacketed bullet. HELP I may have severe jacketed bullet fouling with the 325 Hornady. Takes about 5 rounds before this issues occur. My last time out was with a pristine bore and 5 rounds in my groups expanded tremendously. Cleaning patches were extremely difficult to get into bore afterwards with obvious brass wash at muzzle. I pulled these bullets from Hornady factory ammo. My old shoulder wont stand the 2100 fps factory load. Just wondering.


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3541 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #1 - Feb 1^st, 2017 at 4:49pm	Print Post
	Sweets will get the copper out sure enough. What I'm wondering is how it got so much in five shots to make a patch hard to start. I got rifles that have hundreds and hundreds through 'em that'll take a patch if I ever get around to doing it.


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #2 - Feb 1^st, 2017 at 8:30pm	Print Post
	Does that condom bullet fill the groove diameter of the rifle? If not, that's likely what's fouling your bore so badly. Agree, Sweets or Shooter's Choice to remove the copper. Only in extreme instances that I come across while trying to rehab old milsurps do I resort to Barnes CR-10. Nasty stuff, but it works fast. No matter what, I'd quit using that bullet.

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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #3 - Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 4:52am	Print Post
	I'm assuming this is a Miroku Winchester. Have you cleaned and then slugged the bore IT sounds like a bore dimension and bullet dimension mismatch. If the bullet is undersized not much you can do. {QUERY: Has anyone ever tried paper patching a undersize jacketed bullet or would that not work on jacketed bullet rifling} thats why you are getting cast bullet suggestions. Wondering too if you just might have a rough bore. how new is the rifle?

	sacred cows make the best burger
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jy3855 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 368 Location: California Joined: Jul 13^th, 2015	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #4 - Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 5:03am	Print Post
	QM, Ross Seyfried wrote several articles that I have read in which he discusses paper patching jacketed bullets, and yes, it does work. Probably not in this instance, because the bullet to be PPd should be sufficiently smaller (it varies, but for 16# paper, 2 wraps, it should be about .010" smaller in dia.) to make room for the patch. Hopefully the Gummy Tip bullet isn't .010" too small for the bore of JHM's rifle. If anyone's interested, I've got a couple of Seyfried's PP articles scanned as pdf.s. PM me your email and I can send them to you. I tried attaching one here, but the file was to big to attach here.
	« Last Edit: Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 10:49am by jy3855 »

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nuclearcricket Oldtimer Offline Posts: 741 Joined: Oct 15^th, 2008	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #5 - Feb 2^nd, 2017 at 7:50am	Print Post
	Sounds lime maybe the bore has a ruff patch in it near the muzzle. You may need to run through a break in procedure on the barrel. It may pay you to shoot a round and then thoroughly clean all the fouling out and then another shot, do this for 10 or 20 rounds and see if it improves things for you. Sam


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jmh Participating Member Offline Posts: 23 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2016	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #6 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 12:42pm	Print Post
	Bore slugged 0.4570. Seemed uniform. bullet is 0.4575. So this bullet is too big.... Japanese yes. Thanks for all comments. have 4227 on shelf. Bore squeeky clean and patch easily entered bore before. Also, I quit after 5, and cleaned. Could hardly get same patch in bore. Forgot bore conditioner name. about 8 strokes, and back to original.. Darn expensive bullet. Pulled from Hornady factory loads. My next thought is PP Pb. So I would need what final size PP Pb bullet for 0.4570 bore, 0.458? 459? Yes was to be hunter, but 8" groups @ 125 stopped that. Have casting equipment. Got "whats his name" PP book too.
	« Last Edit: Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 1:07pm by jmh »

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SchwarzStock Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1129 Location: SchwarzWald Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2010	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #7 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 1:40pm	Print Post
	I have shot some very impressive (one-hole) groups at 100 yds with that bullet in a Ruger 45-70 loaded with 50grs of 4198 (Don't put this load in anything but a Ruger). Seriously doubt there is a problem with the bullet, would look real hard at that gun. FWIW: years ago as part of some testing at the Army Special Warfare Center we shot quite a number of 0.312 diameter bullets pulled from 7.62X54R that were then reloaded into 7.62 NATO cases. Due to the increase in diameter of the neck not every rifle would chamber the rounds but some did and shot the ammo accurately. Atleast as accurately as you could expect from Soviet infantry ammunition. SS

	If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #8 - Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 5:16pm	Print Post
	those bullets sound almost 458 Win size lots of variations in .45-70 over the years. also in the rifling twist rates. too fast or too slow a twist can be a factor lighter faster "express" bullets function better in a slower twist than heavier longer bullets you might be running into problems with the weight twist rate and velocity balance. the Miroku built BPCR and Creedmoor variations all were barreled with Badger match barrels shipped to Japan with a slower twist especially for heavy long range bullets. no clue on what they are using now or their QC standards

	sacred cows make the best burger
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16009 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #9 - Feb 4^th, 2017 at 11:14am	Print Post
	jmh wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2017 at 12:42pm: Bore slugged 0.4570. Seemed uniform. bullet is 0.4575. So this bullet is too big.... Japanese yes. Thanks for all comments. have 4227 on shelf. Bore squeeky clean and patch easily entered bore before. Also, I quit after 5, and cleaned. Could hardly get same patch in bore. Forgot bore conditioner name. about 8 strokes, and back to original.. Darn expensive bullet. Pulled from Hornady factory loads. My next thought is PP Pb. So I would need what final size PP Pb bullet for 0.4570 bore, 0.458? 459? Yes was to be hunter, but 8" groups @ 125 stopped that. Have casting equipment. Got "whats his name" PP book too. I wouldn't think the bullet is too large at only .0005" over groove diameter. It may be as others mentioned that the bore has a slight roughness and that's building up copper. I like using cast myself, and prefer bullets not over .001" or less over groove diameter. If I shot a .457" groove bore, I'd want .457" to .458" max. bullets.

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jmh Participating Member Offline Posts: 23 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2016	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #10 - Feb 4^th, 2017 at 8:57pm	Print Post
	thank you Vall, and the many others, it still a baffling issue. This was to be my last rifle. My trend from many responses is cast. Maybe PP. It is so extreme, 8" groups. But as I said, for 4 rds it followed scope adjustments. Will try next week. Not with that bullet.


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #11 - Feb 4^th, 2017 at 11:04pm	Print Post
	Bore roughness is now the chief suspect IMHO. Can you get your hands on a borescope?

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jmh Participating Member Offline Posts: 23 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2016	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #12 - Feb 5^th, 2017 at 5:27pm	Print Post
	I need to remeasure my slug to make i didnt confuse groove vs. bore.
	« Last Edit: Feb 5^th, 2017 at 5:35pm by jmh »

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jmh Participating Member Offline Posts: 23 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2016	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #13 - Feb 5^th, 2017 at 5:37pm	Print Post
	uscra112 wrote on Feb 4^th, 2017 at 11:04pm: Bore roughness is now the chief suspect IMHO. Can you get your hands on a borescope? not that I know of......If I find one will post.


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jmh Participating Member Offline Posts: 23 Joined: Oct 27^th, 2016	Re: Hornady's 325 gn plastic tip bullet Reply #14 - Feb 7^th, 2017 at 4:57pm	Print Post
	found one 'smith in Allgood, AL. Also known as frequented by the train robber Rube Burrows.


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