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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Olympic Museum, Lausanne (Read 13290 times)
DrDirt
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #15 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 11:18am
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I should have stated it in the original post, but the rifle appeared to be chambered for something in the .22 to .25 range.  The barrel diameter was about 1.25".

Spud wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 6:02pm:
Here's a close-up of a BSA #8 mounted on a BSA adapter plate to suit a Highwall. This one was fitted to a .38/56. The yellow glass element on the eye piece really sharpens the sight picture.

That's a great Highwall in the museum. What cartridge was it chambered for?
Pete

  
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waterman
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #16 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 12:45pm
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Crossman (same book) wrote of the 1913 ISU matches at Camp Perry.  "We had nothing in this country remotely resembling a Free Rifle and our Springfields were hopelessly outclassed except in accuracy (meaning no set triggers & hooked butt plates & palm rests).  Winchester ... stepped in with a heavy single shot Winchester with single set trigger and specially bushed and hammer-locked action to handle our 1906 cartridge."

P. 140, Crossman reports of Nuesslein's 1924 rifle, a Martini with a 30" Pope barrel in .30-06.  With sights & palm rest, it weighed 18 1/2 lbs.

Did the rules specify military cartridges?  They did not use the full-power military loads in later years.  The "International Match" load in today's equivalent was something like 36.5 grains of HiVel 2 and a 172 grain bullet.
  
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terry buffum
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #17 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 4:21pm
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I had a Pope Highwall in 7.5 Swiss in full free rifle stock.  It is now in Iowa.  The story when I bought it was that it was intended for Olympic competition in the 1930s.
  

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waterman
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #18 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 10:07pm
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My friend George has one of the Swiss Martini (Hammerli?) actions barreled by Springfield, 30" heavy barrel, with DST & free rifle stock, fancy sights, palm rest, etc. in .30-06.  This one was apparently sold by DCM circa 1932 for about $280.  6 month's wages or groceries for a year for a factory worker.

George & I have shot it a bit, using Sharpe's version of the International Match load; 38 grains 3031 and a Sierra match bullet.  Quite accurate.  We quit shooting it because it is horrendously heavy. 16 lbs +.  Those Olympic free rifle shooters must have been all round athletes, not just guys who were good shots.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #19 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 8:18am
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I have two of the ISU-type Hammereli Martini versions, my first one is in original 7.5x55 swiss. Its very accurate and I have fired modern smokeless jacketed Swiss ammo in it----just never got around to developing cast bullet loads ---yet!!  LONG and HEAVY ended!!! Shocked Shocked
    Not sure what the 300m ISU course of fire was; but after a session of offhand, shooting from sitting or kneeling and then prone might be a natural and welcome progression.

The second one is almost identical rifle with minor stock differences BUT it was converted to 22 rf by drilling out the bore to half an inch or more and a large diameter 22rf barrel liner inserted and the extractor converted to 22rf.   The shorter (20 or so inches long)inner 22 barrel is held in center by three small set screws that have metric threads (which leads me to conclude that the conversion is probably of Euro-origin). It is MUCH easier to shoot Smiley
  

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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #20 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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This is a fascinating thread.  I wish the picture showed a bit more of the hammer.  I dug out Crossman's "Military and Sporting Rifle Shooting", 1932, which was hiding on my bookshelves but which I had never before opened.  Chapter 12 is about Free Rifle shooting in some detail.

Ned describes the free rifles made in 1913 by Winchester in more detail.  Specifically, he says "single set trigger" and a hammer with a slot, constructed so that gas from a pierced primer could not blow the hammer back.  The photo has DST, so that is probably not a 1913 rifle, unless the triggers were changed.

The 1913 ISU rules forbid any sort of peep sights.  The matches were shot with open sights, either the military target sights for the 03 & Krag or those odd barrel sights we see on European Schuetzen rifles.  Were our military sights modified to eliminate the little hole?  The 1914-1918 war ended ISU & Olympic shooting.  When Olympic shooting resumed in 1920, peep sights & tang sights were allowed, but it was iron sights only, no glass magnifying inserts.

The rifle in the photo could be a 1920 or earlier High Wall in .25 caliber.  What match-grade bullets were available?  What case?  The .25 Krag was a wildcat but pretty well known.  Who made the barrel?

Crossman lists the US team rifles year by year, 1920 to 1930.  He says the 1920 US Olympic team used regular 1903 rifles selected for accuracy.  The museum photo implies that other rifles were used and that Crossman was in error.  Crossman's list does not match what he wrote about Free Rifle shooting in "The Book of the Springfield", so none of this is the gospel.
  
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #21 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 2:21pm
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On p. 260 of Crossman's Military & Sporting Rifle Shooting, he quotes from a letter from Nuesslein, saying "my practice rifle is a .22 Schuetzen, on a Winchester action with a heavy #4 octagon Peterson barrel".  Nuesslein went on to write that he used a Peterson palm rest and did much more shooting with the .22 at a reduced target at 50 yards than he did at 300.  Perhaps the photo is Nuesslein's practice rifle?

More about the free rifle game.  The target (Olympics, ISU or Pan-American) was a 1-meter wide circle, with the 1 ring on the outside.  The inner rings were each 100 mm less in width, with the 10 ring being 100 mm wide.  Range was 300 meters (328 yards).  Course of fire was 40 shots offhand, 40 shots kneeling and 40 shots prone.  5 shooters on a team.  Maximum team score is 6000 points.  Winning team score was 4900, by the Swiss team, apparently only achieved once.

  
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #22 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 7:17pm
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to Questionablemaynard,  rereading this thread came upon your comment regarding exhibiting rifles vertically.  Today was on the Milwaukee Museum website looking for the Centennial muzzleloading Meunier schuetzen rifle.  The rifle is featured in their exhibit overview and the rifle is displayed vertically with a similar support.  The display does allow for 360 viewing.  I was fortunate to see this rifle displayed (vertically) in SanAntonio in 1968 at the "Hemisphere" but later when visiting Milwaukee the rifle had been withdrawn and in storage.  Sorry to get the thread off topic- jim
  
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #23 - May 14th, 2017 at 7:46am
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Two museums in this country that likely have similar rifles would be the Cody in Cody, WY and the Davis in Claremore, OK. Many (100+?) single-shot target rifles on display at any one time and many more in storage. Hope the Cody has started doing a better job of maintaining as they had many rifles starting to rust that are on display during my most recent visit. Both are worth the trip.
  

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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #24 - May 14th, 2017 at 5:55pm
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To Waterman, The Palm rest shown on that Rifle appears to be a Pope. Or at least Identical. Might have something to do with the Barrel source. I own at this time one of the Hammerli Team rifles in 30-06, Now I may be wrong about it being a Team Rifle as after 1930 I have read the NRA was able arrange purchase of Hammerli Rifles to those who wished to buy them and mine has Scroll engraving around the edge of the action profile, it also has a rear sight much like the one used on the Team Rifles but with Metric Screw adjustments.
I have at one time owned one of the Winchester Hiwalls used in 
I think 1913 in 30-06 Caliber at Camp Perry. I lettered it and it lettered as  Rifle that first left the Factory in 50 Express caliber and was returned a few years later for change. It then left the Factory in 30-06 with the Front Sight with the Top opened up as described in the description of those Rifles. It was very accurate with Military Match Ammo. But it was a Hard Holder.
You had to have a good solid grip and hard pull into your shoulder, shot it both Offhand and Prone, at 200 YDS Prone it just took out the X Ring on the NRA A-21 200 -YD SMALLBORE 
RIFLE TARGET. But it was rather an unpleasant Rifle to shoot and I sold it. A mistake I have come to believe. I suspect that when the 30-06 Hi Walls  were being built in the custom shop at Winchester the Lower Tang with Close Coupled set Trigger was appropriated for use in the Rifles for Camp Perry. HTH 
Regards FITZ-G. Smiley
  
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #25 - May 15th, 2017 at 1:15am
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Back in the late 60's after I got out of the navy I wrote to the NRA regarding reduced loads for 100 yd shooting. The gist of the letter was that to use IMR 4895 powder 38-40 grains maximum and a Sierra 125 grain spitzer flat based bullet. At the time I had a Smith Corona fitted with a lyman 48 rear sight and a 17 xnb which meant taking off the standard 03 sight off and installing the 17xnb. That load useing tw44 cases shot extremely well and the letter did mention 300 meter shooting. Wishing I had that letter today. Very low recoil and very accurate. Frank
  
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Re: Olympic Museum, Lausanne
Reply #26 - May 15th, 2017 at 11:45am
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on a related note I know a man who shot on our 1968 biatholon team. he told me they used Remington 40x's in .223 converted for clip feed.
  
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