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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2 (Read 11272 times)
Snyd
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Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:40am
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What a great site you guys have here. I had no idea until I started researching this ol Stevens. I've been reading quite a bit here but have not yet seen a 44 1/2 like this one. I'd like to get an idea of the time frame it was made. From what I've gleaned here it seems to be pre war judging by the serial number but the color case style indicates post war. Then there is the 28" full round barrel and it's markings. What have I got here gents? Another Stevens mystery? Cheesy


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« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2017 at 3:31pm by Snyd »  
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LRF
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #1 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 8:42am
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Welcome sir and that appears to be a very nice clean rifle. Sorry I know very little about Stevens but I am quite sure there are others here that will be able to provide you much good information.
  
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32 ballard xl
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #2 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 10:54am
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Snyd wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:40am:
What a great site you guys have here. I had no idea until I started researching this ol Stevens. I've been reading quite a bit here but have not yet seen a 44 1/2 like this one. I'd like to get an idea of the time frame it was made. From what I've gleaned here it seems to be pre war judging by the serial number but the color case style indicates post war. Then there is the 28" full round barrel and it's markings. What have I got here gents? Another Stevens mystery? Cheesy


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Wow, what a gem.  Very late in the production run from the look of the stampings. Smiley
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #3 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 11:55am
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If the inside of the barrel is in the same shape as the rest, you've got a gem. Have you started gathering what you need to shoot it?
I like old guns that have just enough miles on 'em to look like they were used and loved. Just like yers.
  
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moshannon
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #4 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:09pm
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Very nice!! I had one in 32/20 near mint with a SN of 12,87x. That was the latest number I had ever seen until your's. What's interesting is that mine had the striped CC with a part octagon barrel. I think all of the later ones had the extra screw for the kicking "extractor". 
Mike
  

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Snyd
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #5 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm
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calledflyer wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 11:55am:
If the inside of the barrel is in the same shape as the rest, you've got a gem. Have you started gathering what you need to shoot it?
I like old guns that have just enough miles on 'em to look like they were used and loved. Just like yers.


The bore is shiny and bright no pits. I do cast and load for my pistols. 45C, 454, 45 auto, 500L, 38/357. I'm not much in to rifles. I'd have to gear up with 25-20 ss dies, brass, mould(s), etc. I haven't decided what to do with this one yet. I like to have guns that I shoot.
  
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ledball
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #6 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:15pm
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I've never seen a 44 1/2 Stevens like this, the serial number puts it as one of the very last 44 1/2 ever made ,very unique.  Ledball
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #7 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:39pm
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moshannon wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 12:09pm:
I think all of the later ones had the extra screw for the kicking "extractor". 
Mike


The later rimfires did, but I've never seen one on a CF.

Also, I've never seen the Trademark stamp on a pre-1916 44-1/2 receiver, though it's common on 44s made after the company reorganization.  So is it a left-over receiver finished after the War?  Slumlord, what say you?
  
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waterman
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #8 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:36pm
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Redsetter,

That was my thought also.  A receiver assembled after WW1.  Maybe the last or close to it.  The highest SN I have seen.
  
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #9 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:40pm
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Enjoy the rifle, looks like a great one.  I got a no. 56,  044 1/2 recently, and am loving it.
  
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Snyd
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #10 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:52pm
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waterman wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
Redsetter,

That was my thought also.  A receiver assembled after WW1.  Maybe the last or close to it.  The highest SN I have seen.



Would this explain the marking on the barrel? I thought I read that pre war markings were "J Stevens A & T Co." not "J Stevens Arms Company"

What's up with the round barrel? Just an option? It seems most are half octagonal.
  
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Snyd
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #11 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:53pm
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AZshot wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:40pm:
Enjoy the rifle, looks like a great one.  I got a no. 56,  044 1/2 recently, and am loving it.


Ya, I saw that thread. Great to see the young lady shooting it too!
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #12 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 2:39pm
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Snyd wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:52pm:



What's up with the round barrel? Just an option? It seems most are half octagonal.


Round barrels were common on the post-War guns, and no doubt optional at any time, but the half-round was customary with Stevens; why?, who knows, because every other maker charged extra for it.  On the other hand, what's unusual on a Stevens, but standard on most others, is a full-octagon, priced about $2 extra. 
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #13 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 2:51pm
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Snyd wrote on Jan 13th, 2017 at 1:52pm:


Would this explain the marking on the barrel? I thought I read that pre war markings were "J Stevens A & T Co." not "J Stevens Arms Company"


Correct.  Not hugely surprising, because when commercial production was suspended during the war, there must have been plenty of unfinished receivers and other parts put into storage.  I'd like to see the first Stevens catalog issued after the reorganization in 1916; closest I've seen is 1919, and no 44-1/2s listed there.  
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2017 at 3:48pm by Redsetter »  
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slumlord44
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #14 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 10:24pm
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The 44 1/2 was only manufactured from 1904-1916. They were not made after WW1. The first catalog I have after the war is 1918 and they are not in it. The marking on the side of the reciever has me stumped. Never seen it before but that doesn't necessairly mean anything. Looks to me like the marking on the 417-417 1/2 Walnut Hills. They were much later than 1916. The full round barrel is not your usual 44 1/2 but they were available. Thats a very nice example you have. The .25-20 Single Shot is a good shooter and brass not cheap but is available. I am also thinking late production but to my knowledge none were made after WWI. A lunch hour gun built after the war from left over parts? Anything is possible but it is a rare variation from what I have seen.
  
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #15 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 10:39pm
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Thanks gents for all your insight and info. Much appreciated.
  
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #16 - Jan 13th, 2017 at 10:46pm
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My take on it is exactly the same as Slumlord's. Every feature and marking screams post-Savage-takeover, but it's a 44 1/2.   It ought not to exist, but there it is.......  Treasure it.  It might be the only one.
  

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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #17 - Jan 14th, 2017 at 1:20pm
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My 25-35 was marked same way. Serial number 12,xxx. X's because I cannot remember rest of number. I have a picture somewhere of the stamp. Moodyholler
  
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #18 - Jan 15th, 2017 at 9:41am
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After WWI into the 1930s Colt would sometimes get out some older parts, and assemble some guns during slow times, to sell.  There was a run of New Services like that, parts from WWI, but refinished and used much later. 

Just because a catalog doesn't list a gun, doesn't mean Stevens didn't have some parts they occasionally assembled and finished.  There are many reasons for this, including cleaning out space, making a gun for a retiring official or employee, doing a favor for a customer request, etc.  There are many "non catalog" items in the gun world.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #19 - Jan 15th, 2017 at 10:10am
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Winchester is said to have done that, too.

In my survey of Stevens Model 44s and derivatives, I have found a couple without the markings typical of the Savage era, but with serial numbers that are certainly post-takeover.
  

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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #20 - Jan 15th, 2017 at 10:17am
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uscra112 wrote on Jan 15th, 2017 at 10:10am:
Winchester is said to have done that, too.


Winchester did a lot of it!  Never scrapping any usable part that could be recycled even 20 yrs after it was originally made.   
  
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #21 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 9:42am
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Can anyone here imagine even just the capability of a manufacturer to assemble fuctioning obsolete items from parts inventory in this era of instant obsolesence and dismal service? 

Progress!

Hayface
  
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uscra112
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #22 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 11:18am
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I can imagine a manufacturer throwing away inventory, simply because it's a tax liability.  My own employer was tossing $5000 Hewlett Packard line printers in the dumpster for just that reason.  I still have one.  New In Box.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Intro and new to me ol' 44 1/2
Reply #23 - Jan 19th, 2017 at 12:37pm
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In this day and age, I can easily imagine manufacturers scrapping out all sorts of valuable parts. But that certainly wasn't the case 100 years ago! In fact it wasn't the case 50 years ago! 
When Marlin moved their manufacturing plant in the late 1960's, the employees found Ballard parts still stuffed in corners from the 1880's and before! And 100 years or more ago, the manufacturers assembled guns from parts that were around the plant, even after those models were obsolete. In the early 1920's Marlin had a bunch of musket receivers from their failed attempt to sell 1894 Muskets to police, National Guard, and other government agencies. The trigger plates had a lug cast into the trigger plate that was cross drilled for a sling loop. Marlin decided to use these trigger plates, and simply ground the lug off. But it left half of the sling loop hole, and thus a groove crossways on the trigger plate. The solution was to sell the assembled guns as "seconds" for $1 less, rather than toss out the parts. They sent flyers to dealers offering these guns at the reduced price, and today collectors are still puzzled when they discover a Model '94 Marlin with that groove cut in the trigger plate!
  

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