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Joe Do...
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Help identify the photo ...
Jan 8th, 2017 at 8:26am
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A few weeks ago, I purchased a cabinet card photo of two shooters.  The photo was taken in a professional studio.  I'd like your help in identifying the two shooters.  I'll share the full photo later but would prefer it doesn't float around the internet until I can get more detail.

- The cabinet card is marked "Winona, Minn." on its framed border.
- The same photo has a framed target made up of 25 one-dollar Treasury notes (circa 1890-1891).  That should help date it.  Were targets like this common?
- When I zoom in, I can partially read a badge on the right shooter's coat.  It reads, "SCHUTZEN KONIG | DUBUQUE | 1886 (maybe 1888)"

I have my own assumption of who one of the two shooters are but need your help confirming that and identifying the other shooter.

Thank you ...
Joe

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« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2017 at 8:55am by Joe Do... »  
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LRF
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 9:33am
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Guy on left looks to be Stephan Meunier, reference pp 326 Ballard book
Look at the angle of the right ear
  
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Huvius
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 9:34am
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These folks may be able to help you.

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LRF
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #3 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 9:40am
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PP 170, guy under the umbrella on left, similar but can't say they are the same????
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #4 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 10:16am
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Front sight looks like a Beach, or Beach-type--not the kind you'd ordinarily expect to see on a Schuetzen rifle.

  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #5 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:03am
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first reaction is "father and son???"   and the more closely I look the more I think I imagine a resemblance. 
  IN my previous career I spent a lot of time studying and analyzing historical photos   Many of which had lost their context.  
  While it may not actually be "family"; I have a strong feeling that this may be the "past winner/champion" or club president or other similar figure congratulating the newer younger winner.
I'm not going to bet the farm on it, it is an unusual pose.   
Not your typical schuetzen winner picture. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

of course I have not taken my meds yet this morning so who knows Cheesy Cheesy
  

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s.s.jeff
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #6 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:13am
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The front sight is the base of the wind gauge sight. A common practice to remove the sight.
  
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LRF
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #7 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:16am
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An interesting PDF
  
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LRF
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #8 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:19am
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Hi Joe,

I have my own assumption of who one of the two shooters are but need your help confirming that and identifying the other shooter.

So what do you think?
  
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Joe Do...
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #9 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:33am
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Thanks LRF ... I think the gentleman on the left is Meunier, Milwaukee, WI gunmaker.  Dutcher's Ballard book identifies him as Stephen but that same photo elsewhere has the man identified as John.

my $0.02 ...
... Joe
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #10 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 12:00pm
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Going by Dutcher's photos, my large bet is that the man on the left is John Meunier; it's certainly not Stephen (who had more hair).  Also, having had my morning meds, I tend toward Old Questionable's first impression that there is a family resemblance between the men, especially around the eyes.  Moreover, the older man's seemingly proprietary hand-on-the-shoulder and his slightest of smiles also says to me "family".  Now, going by the "money target", John Meunier would've been 50-51 when this photo was made.  And since at least I've never heard of a son who was a fine marksman (plus he left his business to a son-in-law), and since the shooter seems way too young to be John's other brother Herman, how about a nephew?

Ain't speculation fun?

Bill Lawrence
  
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LRF
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #11 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 12:23pm
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John, sorry I miss wrote.
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #12 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 1:33pm
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On a bleaker note, perhaps it's his son all right, and the business was later left to another because something happened to the fine young fellow in the photo with him. I'd rather it wasn't my version, though- prefer nicer endings.
Speculation, for certain.
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #13 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 4:58pm
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I found some stuff on the Meunier family; It looks like they could be John Meunier, the gunmaker, and John Meunier, son of Adam Meunier, the gunsmith's nephew.
« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2017 at 8:59pm by Schutzenbob »  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Help identify the photo ...
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 5:35pm
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While I agree that his right-most photo strongly resembles the young man in the submitted photo, Schutzenbob's explanation is a little confusing, at least to me.  First, is "Adam Meunier" supposed to be the elder John Meunier's son or grandson (i.e., is the second-named "John Meunier" the first's grandson or great-grandson)?  Second, since I noted that John Meunier the elder is likely no more than in his early 50s when the original photo was taken, how biologically likely is it that he has a "full-grown" grandson then?  Third, if Adam Meunier has been identified as John Meunier's son, why isn't the younger, second shooter likely him?

In short, Your Honors, I think Schutzenbob needs to rephrase.

Bill Lawrence
  
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