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4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 (Read 8299 times)

emmett22405 Full Member Offline Posts: 164 Location: Virginia Joined: Sep 21^st, 2009	4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 12:38pm	Print Post
	As the temps have dropped of late i have started noticing misfires and large spreads in velocity/ wild swings in trajectory from shot to shot with my IMR4227 loads in 44-40 (16 grains) and 357 mag (12-13 grains) and since i am using 13.5 grains in 32-40 and 17 in 38-55, am wondering if i should switch to a double based powder like H110 or a different lot of IMR 4227 for offhand matches during the colder weather


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Jeff Houck Junior Member Offline Posts: 78 Location: Pocatello Joined: Jan 11^th, 2014	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #1 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:06pm	Print Post
	I don't have an answer for you, but you have the perfect situation to test the question. Load up some test loads and head to the range, then let us know the results. Hurry - inquiring minds want to know!

	Jeff Houck
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emmett22405 Full Member Offline Posts: 164 Location: Virginia Joined: Sep 21^st, 2009	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #2 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 1:39pm	Print Post
	Unfortunately no time for testing before upcoming Saturday match with forecast below 30 at first relay. Has nobody else experienced low temp ignition/burn problems with 4227 ?


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3993 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #3 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 2:15pm	Print Post
	I have shot a batch of it in different guns, and down to temps in the low teens. Never had a failure to fire. Are you sure it's not something beside the powder? I have had performance changes in the low temp from the summer- up to the high nineties. Always went bang though. Good powder, good powder.


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #4 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:01pm	Print Post
	A couple of things to keep in mind powder is hydropscopic and picks up and looses moisture and it can alter your volume and more so if not stored correctly. And it is also quite typical to have to readjust your powder volumne for every 10 degrees in temperture change and how much is something you would have to determine. This could not have anything to do with your current problem and then again it possibly could and it just provides something else for you to take into consideration. JLouis

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3003 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #5 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 3:22pm	Print Post
	Are we referring to fixed ammo? As in .44-40 lever guns? Did anyone read the thread about HiVel #3?


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emmett22405 Full Member Offline Posts: 164 Location: Virginia Joined: Sep 21^st, 2009	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #6 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 5:14pm	Print Post
	yes, all fixed ammo. I re-read the Hivel string and then realized that i was using loads from 4227 stored in my basement in an RCBS powder measure with a loose rubber cap rather than freshly poured from the 8# tigthly capped canister hence a chance for hygroscopic contamination of the charge. Will not do that again. Thanks for the considerate and intelligent comments.


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JS47 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1265 Location: Arizona Joined: Oct 12^th, 2012	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #7 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 10:34pm	Print Post
	I've noticed large velocity spreads with 4227 in my 38-55 and especially 45-70 depending on powder position, forward or back. A card wad .200 off the powder solved the problem in the 38-55. I went to 5744 or black in the 45-70. JS


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Ol_Deuce Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 343 Location: Billings,Montana Joined: Nov 19^th, 2008	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #8 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 11:03pm	Print Post
	I use a slower burn in winter and or 3fff for some of the matches I've shot in the past and have not had a failure to date !!! ........Ol Deuce

	Do The Best With What You Got !!!
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jy3855 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 368 Location: California Joined: Jul 13^th, 2015	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #9 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 10:54am	Print Post
	Emmett, Have you ever read about Skeeter Skelton's "cow killer loads". When he was a young Deputy Sheriff he was called to a car vs. cow traffic collision and was called upon to put the cow down humanely. He was carrying a 4" 44 Special Smith & Wesson stoked with, IIRC, his handloads containing 7.5 grains of Unique under a Keith SWC. Unfortunately, when he loaded those rounds, he used gunpowder that had been stored in the hopper of his powder measure. The powder had been compromised, and his loads simply bounced off the forehead of the poor cow. The cow had to be dispatched by another Deputy. For quite some time thereafter, he was ribbed by requests for some of his "cow killer loads" from other Deputies. He believed that the powder may have been acted on by plasticizers in the plastic hopper. Whatever the mechanism, ever since reading his "cow killer loads" story, I have foregone storing powder in my powder meter. Harrels meters use a Nalgene bottle for a hopper and I wouldn't be too concerned about them, but I don't leave powder in my Redding.


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Ol_Deuce Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 343 Location: Billings,Montana Joined: Nov 19^th, 2008	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #10 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 12:41pm	Print Post
	Hahaha Happy New Years Ol Deuce
	« Last Edit: Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 7:47pm by Ol_Deuce »
	Do The Best With What You Got !!!
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CajunRebel Oldtimer Offline Posts: 694 Location: Alexandria, VA Joined: Nov 18^th, 2007	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #11 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 6:27pm	Print Post
	jy3855 wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 10:54am: Emmett, Have you ever read about Skeeter Skelton's "cow killer loads". When he was a young Deputy Sheriff he was called to a car vs. cow traffic collision and was called upon to put the cow down humanely. He was carrying a 4" 44 Special Smith & Wesson stoked with, IIRC, his handloads containing 7.5 grains of Unique under a Keith SWC. Unfortunately, when he loaded those rounds, he used gunpowder that had been stored in the hopper of his powder measure. The powder had been compromised, and his loads simply bounced off the forehead of the poor cow. The cow had to be dispatched by another Deputy. For quite some time thereafter, he was ribbed by requests for some of his "cow killer loads" from other Deputies. He believed that the powder may have been acted on by plasticizers in the plastic hopper. Whatever the mechanism, ever since reading his "cow killer loads" story, I have foregone storing powder in my powder meter. Harrels meters use a Nalgene bottle for a hopper and I wouldn't be too concerned about them, but I don't leave powder in my Redding. I've taken many a steer down without a "miss" using 22 Shorts shooting the steer in the soft-spot behind the area where the horns would be. It's a little depression where the spine meets the skull. Shoot parallel to the front of the skull. The slug never leaves the brain, minimal damage:)


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3993 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #12 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 6:40pm	Print Post
	Ol' Skeeter always told the truth, twelve times a year, no matter how much better the story could have been with a bunch of embellishment. So did Mark Twain.


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Ol_Deuce Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 343 Location: Billings,Montana Joined: Nov 19^th, 2008	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #13 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 7:07pm	Print Post
	Hmmmmmmm.
	« Last Edit: Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 7:49pm by Ol_Deuce »
	Do The Best With What You Got !!!
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beltfed Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1827 Location: Central Wi Joined: Dec 20^th, 2007	Re: 4227 and cold weather loads in 32-40 and 38-55 Reply #14 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 9:33pm	Print Post
	Emmett, Is your lever gun a M92 Win or M94 Marlin? My deer load-as in Northern WI cold weather,etc works just fine. Second last buck I shot was with my M92, first yr prod'n, 44WCF. Load was 22 gr IMR 4227 under 429434 HP, 200 gr. prints "clover leaves" at 75 yds. One shot-went thru deer-heart shot. Deer went about 75yds and dropped dead. Now you have me worried. I have been using IMR 4227 for several guns last couple yrs , and some is still in my Lyman 55 powder measure in the basement. Have been just topping it off as needed. Probably all yrs long since I emptied the measure. No problems noted, but my basement is dry. I keep a dehumidifier running all summer long. Hmmmm. Think I will go down and empty the measure. beltfed/arnie


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