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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New to Schuetzen - what caliber? (Read 12808 times)
Gard72977
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New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:36pm
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I'm new to the forum and new to Schuetzen. 

Let me start out with a little info on me. I shot USPSA competition and practice all the time. To be honest my first love in shooting is off hand rifle shooting. I live in Mississippi and as far as I can tell there are no Schuetzen matches anywhere close to here. I'm thinking about a CPA Stevens. As I research my criteria for this rifle seems to change. I'm wanting to stay within the rules of the game even if I never attend a match.

I would like to have some advice from experienced shooters. This will be a breech seating only rifle. What caliber do I need?
  
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bohemianway
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #1 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:53pm
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32-40 is what I think the general consensus will be with the following ( I list an order so others can suggest improvements):
1) CPA is a fine choice but get the fast lock time and lowered hammer for easier breach seating tool design.
2) 28" #3 weight barrel unless you are young and strong.
3) Schuetzen lever ( although I prefer the loop).
4) High comb stock 
5) Single prong schoyen plate.
6) 14 ± 2 power Unertl 1 1/4 or 1 1/2  or lyman super targetspot.
7) Iron sights are up to you (MVA Soule or others)
8) Bullet mold I would go 190 ±10 gr
9) 1:14 ish twist.

Let the fun begin,
Charles
  
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calledflyer
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #2 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 8:20pm
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What the heck, I'd just paste a copy of that to CPA and start gathering brass and lead. Sounds like a helluva start.
  
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RSW
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #3 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 9:44pm
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Gard72977
bohemianway presented a good set of parameters for a first Schuetzen rifle. As one who has been in this game for several decades I agree that a CPA can be a good way to get going. I suggest you consider not getting an exaggerated high comb buttstock though. The No.52 Stevens would be a better choice for starters. It's not difficult to manage for bench rest shooting yet is a good for offhand also. If a high comb buttstock does not properly fit you, it will not be comfortable to shoot. I'm not a fan of the single prong butt plates but it's a matter of personal choice. The "Schuetzen" lever is, I assume the 3-finger lever and is a good option. Consider also the loop and spur lever, especially with a wood filler in the loop.
A 32-40, 28 inch, 1:14 twist, No.3 weight barrel is another good choice. 30-Inch length works well too. Consider a full round, no taper contour. Another good barrel contour is full octagon. You will be happy with either. A 190-200 grain bullet is another good recommendation of bohemianway's. Consider a spitzer, cast 1:20 and push it at about 1425 feet per second so it will stay supersonic out to 200 yards.
Scopes are a whole discussion unto themselves. 
You state you are an offhand shooter and practice a lot, that's great! Use as high power scope as you can get your hands on. Some of the best shooters in this game, from the 1980s through today have used 36X and even more for offhand, so consider a 20X if you can find one. You can choose either an older Unertl or Lyman external adjustment or go with a more modern internal adjustment scope, your call.
Take your time to plan out a rifle by making a list of what you want to do with it. Will it be strictly and offhand rifle or will you also shoot bench rest with it for example.
One last point. While the CPA is a good choice, it is by no means your only choice.
Welcome to the Schuetzen game and I wish you the best in your shooting endeavors.
  

Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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Gard72977
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #4 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 9:44pm
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bohemianway wrote on Dec 18th, 2016 at 7:53pm:
32-40 is what I think the general consensus will be with the following ( I list an order so others can suggest improvements):
1) CPA is a fine choice but get the fast lock time and lowered hammer for easier breach seating tool design.
2) 28" #3 weight barrel unless you are young and strong.
3) Schuetzen lever ( although I prefer the loop).
4) High comb stock 
5) Single prong schoyen plate.
6) 14 ± 2 power Unertl 1 1/4 or 1 1/2  or lyman super targetspot.
7) Iron sights are up to you (MVA Soule or others)
8) Bullet mold I would go 190 ±10 gr
9) 1:14 ish twist.

Let the fun begin,
Charles


Calibers that I'm considering 32 Miller short, 32-20 CPA, and 32-40. The more I read about the 32-20 CPA it seems to be a great caliber or terrible. Not much middle ground.


1. I know nothing about the hammer options.

2. This gun will be scope only. Im thinking a little shorter and heavier on the barrel. Half round. I'm a big guy. I shoot heavy guns off hand. This gun should have better balance than what I usually shot.

3. Love the Schuetzen lever

4.like the high comb Pope style.

5. It's going to be single prong.

6. I do well with airgun silhouette shooting 24x off hand. I would like to get a uberti somewhere close to this power. Let me know if there is a reason to not shoot the higher power. 

7. No intention of iron sights.
8 and 9. I will trust the advice I'm given.

If I'm missing something let me know. I have done some research but this is a whole new game

  
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Gard72977
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #5 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 9:53pm
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When I say I practice a lot I mean with a hand gun. The Schuetzen will be a offhand only gun for me. The pistol gets to be more like work than fun. I want the rifle to just enjoy shooting. 
CPA seems like a good way to get started. I have been looking on gun broker and there are a lot of nice  original 8.15x45 German guns. I need to sell several guns to generate money. I'm just starting research for what I want.

I appreciate the time people take to respond.
  
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bohemianway
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #6 - Dec 18th, 2016 at 10:10pm
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RSW, I agree that the highcomb Pope is to much, I have a high comb 51 from CPA (which I don't think they make anymore) and it is great for a big guy (me too) when using a unertl scope height. If you talk to CPA ask if they have a high or straight comb #52. It is too bad you are not in the Minneapolis area our club has USPSA and IDPA matchs plus a few Scheutzen guys who are willing to help.
  
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #7 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 2:32am
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My suggestions would be:

32/40 caliber

14 twist, #4 straight octagon barrel, at least 26" long. #4 straight round, second choice, they are a little cheaper and lighter.

The available NOE copy of the Paul Jones type bullet.    (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Lyman and Unertl scopes are common in 20X, 3/4" Unertl are more expensive but, are not superior to the Lyman's. Higher powder over 20X bring a premium for price for both. 1" Unertl's are much more expensive than 3/4" but, a little better optics and more FOV. Buy what you can afford. Good modern scopes are also a good choice (Weaver the best bang for the buck).

Frank
  

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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #8 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 7:05am
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I have CPA rifles in both 22RF and 32-40.  I have both the two prong butt plate an the single prong and much prefer the single prong.

My suggestion is to first look for a competition that is somewhat close and suits your desires, then purchase a rifle that fits this.

There is a postal match put on by the Wyoming Schutzen Union that may suit your needs for a match.  I believe it is a 50 foot match and uses a 22RF.  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #9 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 7:41am
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I've only held a couple of schuetzen rifles and I came away with this:  The exaggerated shapes schuetzen stocks are very personal  Try some out before you buy.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #10 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 10:03am
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With all the suggestions for .32-40, why the resistance to that caliber? Seems enough suggestions to me that I'd go .32-40.
  

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40_Rod
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #11 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 10:08am
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As this is your first Schuetzen get a 32-40 there is a boatload of good information on shooting a 32-40. Get a Douglas or Shilen 28” #3 barrel with a 1 : 14” twist, then ask Paul to recommend you a bullet mold he will steer you right. 
Personally I have never liked a high comb stock I’ve never been able to get my face on them right. I’ll second the #52 stock. 
The 32-40 is no slouch it will keep up with and of the modern high-pressure .357 based cartridges and it is a lot easier to get going. After you master the 32-40 you can have Paul cut you a barrel for something else if you want but I’ll bet for offhand you’ll stick with the 32-40.

40 Rod 
  
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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #12 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 11:15am
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For OH only shooting, it's a different dynamic. If you read up on it you'll find that the best shooting posture is to stand as erect as posible. That position dictates a stock with a lot of drop and that is why all the German Schuetzen rifles have the "odd" looking stocks and also why you see the Peterson, Pope and Schoyen with similar shaped stocks. They also have short LOP's so that your arm isn't extended way out. Good OH stooters can adapt themselves to BR type stocks and do well but, why have to do that if OH is your main game.

Also, the reason that I recomend a #4 barrel, is that it gives more weight to steady your hold. In general, you will need a ~14 lb rifle. You might have to get used to the weight but, in the long run, it will be beneficial to you. A #3, 26" barrel will only give you about a 11 lb rifle, a #4, 28" about a 14 lb rifle both with scopes. 

Go with a 32/40, it's easy and cheap to start out with and the new 5 shot, record group was shot with a 14 twist, 32/40. It keep up with the small cases and as everyone is telling you, it's easy to develope a accurate load.

Frank
  

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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 1:05pm
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I would not over look the 33-47 it is extremly user friendly and extremly accurate. The 234 grain bullet is a little more forgiving in the conditions and the recoil is similar to the 32-40. Bullet moulds might be a little harder to come by but it will give you a little more than the 32-40 has to offer especialy for a new shooter. Hopefully Terry Harper will chime in with his opioion and success as being a new shooter it being his choice as he has and continues to do extremly well with his from day one. He also chose the CPA and he give you all the specifics of his rifle.

JLouis
  

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Re: New to Schuetzen - what caliber?
Reply #14 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 1:41pm
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why no mention of 38/55?   art
  
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