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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec (Read 7024 times)
SgtDog0311
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Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Dec 8th, 2016 at 2:49pm
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I recently relined an original Ballard and had a tight chamber cut for that one.   Brass for that does not fit in my Cody so it must be tighter still.   I don't want to get Starline 40-65 if it is short - would rather reform 45-70 for length but the datum at the web end is larger there and reforming 45-70 can be iffy. 

I plan on doing a chamber cast as soon as I can locate my cerrosafe but wondering if anybody has dimensions from their Cody 40-65 till then.
  

Best Regards,
John
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #1 - Dec 8th, 2016 at 8:29pm
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Is the .40-65 once fired brass, or full length sized? I haven't heard of any chamber differences in Cody Ballards, but maybe they used a match chamber that requires it to be mechanically seated?
  

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kootne
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #2 - Dec 8th, 2016 at 9:14pm
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Good chance it was cut with a Ron Long spec'ed reamer. At this point in time I have forgotten the details, but they are a little different.
  

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SgtDog0311
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #3 - Dec 8th, 2016 at 9:52pm
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Vall,  I know of about five different 40-65 reamers.   Hoping to get a clue of which.   I'm guessing that Ron Long might be a good clue.   Thanks Kootne!    Wasn't he associated with that bunch at one time?    A FL 45-70 fits but the neck sizes down to .420-.422 so doesn't mean as much as the chamber cast will.   Thanks both of you!!
  

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John
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #4 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 8:41am
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Well, Ok... how about Production Manager.   I know I have a drawing of the Ron Long chamber so that's a clue indeed.

  

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John
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #5 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:35am
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Yes, Ron was very involved in the building of Ballard rifles in Cody. Wouldn't surprise me if they used a Ron Long chamber in your gun. Guess the question now is where to get dies for that chamber, or do you have it reamed to a standard .40-65 Win. chamber?
  

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Hiwall55
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #6 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 1:14pm
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I bought a Shiloh Sharps in 40/65 that has a tight chamber, tried my Lyman dies that I use in my Brownings and had to get a RCBS set for Shiloh and mash it into the shellholder to get the cases to work. New Remington cases.
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #7 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 2:25pm
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Well here it is:
Case length 2.040+.068 or 2.108
Neck length = .535
Neck Diameter = .4315
Freebore = none discernible
Bore = .400
Groove = .408
Datum at web = .503+
Leade Ramp = .170
Some Measurements are give&stake like the leade ramp length.

So not a Ron Long!    Oh well,  that's why we do chamber casts Smiley

My resized 45-70 run .503 at the datum where the web ends.
  

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John
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #8 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 3:37pm
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Sure looks very close to the .40-65 Win. specs John. The neck diameter is generous, as I think spec for the win. is .423" neck. Base diameter is tight, and maybe where it's got some resistance when sizing down .45-70 brass? Most .45-70 base diameters run around .505"-.506".
Have you tried spinning a sized case in a drill press and take a little material off above the rim to see if that lets them chamber?
  

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gunlaker
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #9 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 4:25pm
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My Shiloh .40-65 cases are tighter than that at the web.  Mine are no larger than 0.498" anywhere forward of the rim.

Chris.
  
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Hiwall55
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #10 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 5:56pm
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I've got 150 fireformed cases for my Shiloh that the web is .498 and neck is .432.
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #11 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 6:19pm
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I think everyone is right... everyone but me that is.

I've been sitting here looking at the drawing and back at my measurements.   With lighting, Cerrosafe, the cast itself and the inexact nature of caliber reading lined up with points on the cast I agree it's a 40-65 Win.   

As for the reported web dimension, that was the one place that didn't have good fill, maybe from not heating the very mouth of the chamber as much as down further.   In other words the .503 was some guesswork after reading .498 but not trusting that poorly filled portion.   Everything but for the freebore (.018) lines up with this PTG diagram.  I would have thought that my eye would easily discern .018 but the shallow end of the leade ramp look to go all the way to the 45* following the case mouth - my buddy and I debated if it did or didn't when looking at it with a magnifier.   As for the length from the base to mouth, Bill said 2.040 and I read it 2.035.   Too close not to be it.   

Time to start the case work -- and probably time to consider an RCBS Shiloh Sharps sizer (like Chris recommended over on the BPCR site) for my other Ballard reline.  My Cowboy dies and a Lyman #17 shell holder are not allowing me to get smaller than .503 at the web ending.
  

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John
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art_ruggiero
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #12 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 6:44pm
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shorten the sizer die,  that will do it   art
  
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Hiwall55
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #13 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 6:56pm
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That's what I did when my Lyman set wouldn't get them small enough.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co: 40-65 chamber spec
Reply #14 - Dec 10th, 2016 at 1:00am
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art_ruggiero wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 6:44pm:
shorten the sizer die,  that will do it   art


Sounds like a good idea, but may still need to remove some material where the shell holder wont let the die go far enough down to the rim.
  

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