chawk wrote on Dec 7^th, 2016 at 8:45am:


Heel sight.

chawk wrote on Dec 7^th, 2016 at 8:45am:


Nope.  In fact, in many cases the same vernier was used in both positions.

chawk wrote on Dec 7^th, 2016 at 8:45am:


Google "supine" shooting

chawk wrote on Dec 7^th, 2016 at 8:45am:


Given I can't remember the term for a flat-bottomed piece of wood right at the front of the receiver, used with the heel of the palm, I'll leave this for someone else.

The supine position was used in the Creedmoor matches and later long range matches. No artificial support was allowed so shooters developed a way to lie back and rest the barrel on their leg or foot. There were quite a few variations of the position. The maximum weight of the rifles was 10 lbs and most of them were 44/100 caliber so recoil would have been brutal in a head forward prone position like we are used to today. The supine position was more recoil friendly and gave a long sight radius which contributed to accuracy.

Some pictures I have seen of shooters using the Supine Position they have the Butt Stock on top of their shoulder and have their Left hand curled around their head supporting the Butt on the end to control recoil. It has occurred to me that this may have been a way to eliminate absorbing the Recoil. The arm would act like a recoil absorber. Have not ever read any thing but just suspect. I have a Borchardt in .45x2 7/8 and have shot it at 1000 Yds with a load as follows. Postell Bullet 535 grs 30/1 Lead/Tin 10 Grs 4759, 100 Grs of Elephant Fg. Rifle weighed 10 1/2 Lbs. We shot it from the Bench and it only took three shots to find a 36" Diameter Bull from a 450 Yd Zero to hit the plate at 1000 Yds. Tremendous Recoil. We were shooting from a Bench on the back of a Flat bed truck. Every one there wanted to try it but once they got a hit and a Gong they were quick to pass it on to someone else. We went through 60 rounds of Ammo. And I decided this was not something I ever wanted to do again. When I went down to the Impact area I found that we had started to develop a group of Impacts splashes that measured under 10". Now at 1000 yds that is Minute of Angle. To be sure there also many hits around the periphery of the Plate. But a lot in the center. Scattered in front were a bunch of Nickle sized remains of the Postell Bullets, about 3/32" thick. But I have never been asked to do it again, HA! HTH Regards, FITZ.
By the way we were able to get on the Target with a Mid Range Sharps rear sight. We were almost out of elevation, right up near the top. But we got there. FITZ.

I have no idea why they shot with the stock on their shoulder and their arm behind their head.  I suppose it  had something to do with how they were built and was to get the best position for stabity and sight picture.  Most people  can't get into a position to shoot backrest. 

Recoil is substantially less shooting backrest.  I doubt if that was the reason.  Reading the wind and seeing the proper target and not cross firing is much more difficult.  When they started allowing prone cross sticks, I quit.  Too many disadvantages especially when you lost the stability advantage.

Yeah, every time I see images of a shooter prone with his hand behind his head he's shooting with typical tang sight location, not a heel sight. I can't imagine how they could shoot that way with a heel sight location?

In pistol silhouette there were some who shot in a modified Creedmoor position, with the hand holding the revolver or other alongside the outer calf. I have seen pant legs ignited by muzzle or cylinder gap blast. Ah, the good ol' days

Schuetzenmiester wrote on Dec 8^th, 2016 at 1:34pm:


Yes, but it also appears he's at a slight angle to avoid shooting his toe off. 
I've watched silhouette pistol shooters in Creedmoor position with the barrel resting on their leg, and often winced as the muzzle was so close to their pants leg that I thought they might crease their pants leg! And revolver shooters usually have a piece of leather between their gun and pants to shield the flash from the forcing cone.

I'm a chicken shooter. I love my toes    I always shot with the the muzzle out front and loaded with the rifle on my lap with the muzzle in front of them too    I don't trust the angles, any of the angles

Wow!  That was a great read and very informative.  The pictures and the descriptions of the many different poses are interesting and thought provoking, apparently there are many different ways to skin a cat. 

dbm: Thanks for your help and insight.

Those of us that shot revolvers in that position wore hard leather, or similar "fender", mud flaps or whatever one decided to call 'em.
Even saw some use wraps of duct tape over cardboard. Slap hell out ya though, didn't it?

I started with a hard rubber one, but went to a hard leather when I could. Rubber was sometimes accused of being against the rules. Said it was an aid to holding. It wasn't. 
I worked at a place where I could get full sized targets burnt. Just couple of years ago my sister took them and used 'em in her garden after painting 'em up all fancy. Eighteen targets.  About 400 pounds of 'em.
.41 Ruger with a lot of tuning. Then, an xp in 7-08. That one was a pain in the rear.