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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	dumb question Nov 28^th, 2016 at 1:43pm	Print Post
	MI and other states have legalize 357 and larger straight-walled "pistol" cartridges for deer hunting in previously shotgun and muzzle loader only regions. I was thinking about this during one of my periodic bouts of insomnia last night. The rule is straight walled---though it can be straight-tapered tapered to the "bullet-gripping area" but no bottle neck cartridges are allowed. and the case can be no more that 1.8 inches long. I'm not sure it that is overall or to the rim. There are a variety of cartridges based on shortened 45 calibre cases and some on shortened .444 Marlin cases. But I'm wondering about taking a 38-55 case and shortening it to the 1.8 inch maximum. Does that round already exist under another name?

	sacred cows make the best burger
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JCHannum Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 435 Location: Toledo Joined: Aug 8^th, 2007	Re: dumb question Reply #1 - Nov 28^th, 2016 at 2:55pm	Print Post
	I don't know what the restrictions are in other states, but Ohio names the acceptable cartridges and 38-55 is included. This is from 2014, there have been a couple of additions since. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

	Jim H.
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craigd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2059 Location: midwest Joined: Feb 22^nd, 2009	Re: dumb question Reply #2 - Nov 28^th, 2016 at 4:12pm	Print Post
	The 357 Herrett comes to mind. It's short enough, but shows the slight bottleneck. There's a 357 wcf but it's a tad too long. Maybe, look around for wildcats that folks used to play with in Contenders. Best of luck with it.


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ballardhepburnmich ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 598 Location: Scotts,mi. Joined: May 20^th, 2015	Re: dumb question Reply #3 - Nov 28^th, 2016 at 11:38pm	Print Post
	When I was 15 I shortened the 38-55 to 1&3/4" and loaded with DuPont bulk shotgun powder to the base of the bullet to shoot squirrels with. Lee


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Deadeye Bly Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1146 Location: Stephens City Joined: Feb 25^th, 2011	Re: dumb question Reply #4 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 7:58am	Print Post
	I'm currently chambering a barrel for a guy in MI with a 45/70 reamer only cutting 1.8" deep. According to him it should be legal and it can be loaded with standard 45/70 dies with perhaps some modifications. It will be similar to the 45/60.


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SSShooter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2944 Location: Southern NJ Joined: Aug 1^st, 2010	Re: dumb question Reply #5 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 10:02am	Print Post
	Another is the 40-60WCF. As John mentions in the previous post, just run the reamer in to legally required depth and trim brass as needed (45-70 or 40-65 starting cases).

	Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Online Posts: 3993 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: dumb question Reply #6 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 1:37pm	Print Post
	Might try just chambering one for .460 S&W if you don't mind a larger caliber. If the rifle is stout enough, that is.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18085 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: dumb question Reply #7 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 1:46pm	Print Post
	You could go with either the .357 Maximum at 1.6". Not the 1.8" you wanted, and slightly smaller bullet, but would work well for deer sized game. Or shorten the .38-55 to 1.8" and call it a .38-45 Bullard. The Bullard is exactly 1.8" originally, but not sure how the rest of the case matches up to the .38-55 Ballard?

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yamoon Frequent Elocutionist Offline NRA Life, ASSRA , GGCA, MCA Posts: 1006 Location: Junction City Kansas Joined: Feb 11^th, 2012	Re: dumb question Reply #8 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 8:08pm	Print Post
	Kansa allows any center fire rifle, this includes those chambered for a center fire pistol round. Not sure I agree as I don't consider 22 Hornet or 218 Bee powerful enough for deer sized animals. Mike Rifle season starts tomorrow, got my tags, ready to go.


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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: dumb question Reply #9 - Nov 29^th, 2016 at 8:46pm	Print Post
	The MI rules are not as liberal as Ohio's since OH allows the 358 Win, 38-55, 45-70, and its bigger brothers. But OH appears to specify by established "factory" cartridge. MI does specify cartridge names, rather it gives case dimensions--which allows for "wildcats" and creativity as long as the fit the dimensional template. " A .35 caliber larger rifle loaded with a straight-walled case with a min. case length of 1.16 inches and a max. length of 1.80 inches" taken from the 2016 Hunting and Trapping Digest {of the rules and regulations: DWS} p.20. This governs the southern half of the lower peninsula ---which was perviously shotgun/pistol/ muzzle-loader--and bows of course. the upper half and the UP of course have alway permitted most rifles.

	sacred cows make the best burger
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rr2241tx Full Member Offline Posts: 139 Location: San Marcos Joined: Mar 27^th, 2012	Re: dumb question Reply #10 - Nov 30^th, 2016 at 11:19am	Print Post
	Browning-Miroku made a run of their updated 1885 rifles in .45 Colt that had chambers deep enough to all but take a 454 Casull. Mine won't shoot regular 45 Colt as well as I can throw rocks but with a heavy Keith style SWC and a healthy powder charge it is a fine hunting rifle. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	« Last Edit: Nov 30^th, 2016 at 11:36am by rr2241tx »

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 18085 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: dumb question Reply #11 - Nov 30^th, 2016 at 11:36am	Print Post
	1,16" case length really limits things vs. the 1.8" originally mentioned. That truly restricts the rifle to pistol calibers, so your choices are even more limited! That wont even allow a .357 Magnum, so you're stuck with nothing longer than a .38 Special! The .45 Colt or .44 Special fall under Mi. rules, but of course are larger bores than you wanted. I personally would go for either, as the larger bullet and case capacity would be a more effective deer round.

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rr2241tx Full Member Offline Posts: 139 Location: San Marcos Joined: Mar 27^th, 2012	Re: dumb question Reply #12 - Nov 30^th, 2016 at 11:37am	Print Post
	1.16" is minimum length, 1.8" is maximum case length.


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BudHyett Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 281 Location: Pacific Northwest, WA State Joined: Jun 25^th, 2011	Re: dumb question Reply #13 - Dec 5^th, 2016 at 3:14pm	Print Post
	A Canadian competitor who came to matches in Spokane and Tacoma has this cartridge. He shortened the .38-55 to 1.8 inches long and breech-seated a 250 grain bullet. The gunsmith short-chambered with a .38-55 reamer and then cut a breech-seat leade. Unfortunately, he has passed away and I do not have contact information. I was interested in his cartridge and we discussed it thoroughly. At the time, I had a Remington Rolling Block in .38-55 which shot well some days and improved cylinder other days. I was thinking of doing the same, but rebarreled the Rolling Block to .45-70, a better choice. The .38-55 barrel went on a friend's 1893 Marlin and is now his elk rifle, shoots far better on the Marlin.

	Country boy from Illinois living in the magical Pacific Northwest
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