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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Crimp or not crimp (Read 9231 times)
Chris C
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Crimp or not crimp
Oct 30th, 2016 at 5:54pm
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I shoot .38-55 in a single-shot Highwall.  I load smokeless, so I'm using fixed ammo.  I flair my cases, seat the bullet and then crimp..................well "sort of" crimp.  I use my crimping die to just take the flair out of the case.  Although upon very close inspection, the case doesn't end up completely straight sided.  I'm considering buying a Lee Factory Crimp Die and using it to just straighten out the case without adding crimp pressure to the bullet.  Am I on a feasible track or am I wasting my time?
  

Chris
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Marlene
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #1 - Oct 30th, 2016 at 6:16pm
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Wasting your time with the Lee die. There's nothing you could want that the crimp function of a standard seating die won't do.

Two things to try: 

1) some actual crimp, sometimes it improves combustion
2) leaving enough flare to center the case mouth firmly in the chamber
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #2 - Oct 30th, 2016 at 7:07pm
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I use the factory crimp die, but only put enough crimp on the case mouth to keep bullets from moving. Works fine, and easier on the case mouth also.
  

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FITZ
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #3 - Oct 30th, 2016 at 7:18pm
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I many years ago did just as you are doing. Bell the mouth just enough to get the Bullet to go in without shaving lead. Then seating and closing up the crimp at the same time, just enough so that I could chamber the round. Bullet was a 285 gr Lyman and with 18.0Grs of 4759 shot superbly. Problem became that with all that Belling and Crimping the Brass started to develop short little splits at the mouth of the case. Bothered me to the point that I found another way to shoot Breech Seating. You have to realize that at that time there was no supply of 38-55
available as there is now. Cartridge was discontinued and all that was left available was old Brass. When Winchester brought 
it out again I ordered 1500 rounds and then when I received it I found that Winchester being Brain Dead had shortened the length .050. And they would never admit that they had made a mistake. I have used it but have always been uncomfortable as I have since then acquired some really nice Schuetzen Rifles in 38-55 caliber. My answer has been to buy some really nice Tapered Bullet Molds and Load them by dropping the Bullet into the chamber and putting a charged case in behind and closing the breech. Works fine in all I have done it with when I find the appropriate powder charge. HTH Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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Chris C
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #4 - Oct 30th, 2016 at 10:06pm
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marlinguy wrote on Oct 30th, 2016 at 7:07pm:
I use the factory crimp die, but only put enough crimp on the case mouth to keep bullets from moving. Works fine, and easier on the case mouth also.


That's exactly what I'm wanting to do, Vall.  Feel  much more assured of my "tilt" knowing you do the same.  Thanks.
  

Chris
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SSShooter
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #5 - Oct 31st, 2016 at 12:09pm
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If you want to spend a bit more $$, then the CH4D neck bushing die works great. The nice thing about the bushing die is you can change them for different brass (Win, R-P, etc.) as all brass is not the same thickness, and also for different calibers (I use mine for 30 thru 40cal).
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #6 - Oct 31st, 2016 at 1:36pm
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Fixed in single shots isn't going to need much neck tension unless you use powders that are a little harder to light. I leave my flare just to where it'll chamber and let it go at that. Bullets might slide back irregularly if you jam them into the rifling, but if you just let 'em kiss it, or have a little bit of jump things work real well. 
I avoid crimp for less brass working, plus, when I spend as much time making and lubing as good a bullet as I can, the last thing I want is to smash it out of shape with a crimp. Just my opinion, of course.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #7 - Oct 31st, 2016 at 2:06pm
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Not to mention that any variation in brass length will result in different tension on the bullet when crimped = not good for accuracy.
  
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bnice
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #8 - Oct 31st, 2016 at 3:05pm
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I would worry that no crimp will vary the combustion because of various bullet pull levels (tension)and affect accuracy. 
Fitz, in your method does the case seat the bullet and then rests on the base to seal? No other seater?
  
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boats
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #9 - Oct 31st, 2016 at 4:47pm
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Lot of different opinions all valid, here is another

I don't crimp my fixed 38/55's.  While it's possible Crimps do improve powder burn it not a issue with my loads. 300 gr bullet loaded long so it engages the lands on loading, complete combustion.  

If I was using the gun for hunting, had to carry cartridges in a belt or pouch & needed to extract a loaded round would probably crimp them.

Having said that my 25/20 & 38/40 cast loads used for NRA Lever Silhouette in Orgional Marlin 1894's run without crimps too. Sized with a neck sizing die the bullet pull is consistent & the hard to find brass last longer with minimal working of the case

Try running without Crimps, see a problem use the Crimp to cure it. Otherwise less you do better the result.

Boats
« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2016 at 4:52pm by boats »  
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marlinguy
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #10 - Oct 31st, 2016 at 6:06pm
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oneatatime wrote on Oct 31st, 2016 at 2:06pm:
Not to mention that any variation in brass length will result in different tension on the bullet when crimped = not good for accuracy.


Regardless of how much I crimp, or if I don't crimp; I'm pretty picky about all my brass being the same length. I think anyone striving for accuracy best also be careful about getting all their cases the same length.
Since I also hunt with my single shots, I can't have a bullet falling out, or moving. Cartridges need to have just enough crimp to ensure the bullet stays exactly where I seat it for my uses.
  

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FITZ
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #11 - Oct 31st, 2016 at 7:18pm
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bnice, yes I use Pope bullets in 32-40 and 38-55. They are just right even in a Factory chamber. The last 1/8" of the Breech block closing seats the bullet with just a slight bit of engraving along the sides. And the Base on Pope cut molds is large enough so that you do not see light past them. So I have not needed any other method of seating. I actually do not consider what I do to Be " Breech Seating" but consider it to be "Shooting Loose Ammo". Has worked well for me shooting Offhand. My cases have a Cork wad to retain the Powder Charge, so I do not have to fuss about spilling Powder charges.
HTh Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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Chris C
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #12 - Nov 1st, 2016 at 5:38pm
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My brass is carefully trimmed and kept at the same length, case to case.........as much as possible.  Typically I shoot low pressure rounds, so my brass hardly ever changes in length.  I'm trying to obtain neck tension only......which was recommended to me by Vall some time ago, but I want the flair brought back down to the dimension of the case below it........or as close as possible without adding tension.  I have been pondering this flair vs. crimp thing for a long time now and should have just sent Vall a PM in the first place since it turns out he uses the Lee Factory Crimp die the same way I'm wanting to.  Disappointing part is I thought it was my idea!  Wink  Oh well, nothing is ever really "new" but just "revisited".  Grin
  

Chris
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boats
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #13 - Nov 1st, 2016 at 6:12pm
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If you shoot real light loads the case neck can smoke up because it does not expand to seal.  Little flare, enough to scrape the chamber works well. Opposite of crimping.

No single answer to the question, it depends on the load and how it's used.

Boats
  
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Chris C
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Re: Crimp or not crimp
Reply #14 - Nov 1st, 2016 at 6:23pm
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My loads must not be that light because I never get any blow-back.
  

Chris
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