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Fazer
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Cordite to new powder
Oct 13th, 2016 at 11:46am
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I have a Westly Richards, Deeley and Edge actined rifle.
It has been cordite proofed. Any one have a suggestion where to start with available powders. It says 35 gr of cordite. 
  Thanks.......Chip

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frnkeore
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #1 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 11:53am
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Are you interested in PB cast bullet, GC or, jacketed?

I once had  Soper in that caliber.

Frank
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #2 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 12:35pm
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That is proofed for a light "nitro for black" load to duplicate the original loading of 76 grains of black. Any smokeless load that is listed safe in weaker 45-70 rifles should work. Probably 5744 or 4198 come to mind. I had one of these 1873 Westley Richards that had been barrelled in England to a 400-360 so not especially weak (saw it sticking out of a barrel in a gunshop in England and bought it for $100) but still stay on the safe side of things. I must caution you that since the trigger guard comes down with the lever make sure that there is no way it can rub the trigger on the way back up by applying side force on the lever to test. Don't ask me how I know.
I just modified this post to remove 3031 as in thinking about the size of the 500/450 #2 brass 3031 may not be a good idea. 4198 has been used at 40% of the black powder weight as a substitute and this would be about 30 grains which sounds about right. 5744 was formulated with large black powder brass in mind and is relatively position insensitive so might be the best solution. My 500/450 #2 is an older (1867?) Westley Richards "Improved Peabody" (has an internal hammer) but in the 1970s I had it modified with a chamber plug to be an inline muzzleloader using 209 primers. My other Westley Richards is an 1881 Deeley and Edge in the larger 500/450 #1 Express (think 45-110) which I can duplex load to about 1900 fps with a 300 grain bullet.
« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2016 at 4:02pm by oneatatime »  
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BP
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #3 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 3:34pm
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An article dealing with double rifles in the .450 to .475 class discusses using a couple modern powders used in place of cordite.
The article was written by Keith McCafferty, and is titled Handloading for Double Rifles, found in the 1993 Winter issue of The Double Gun Journal.
  

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SgtDog0311
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #4 - Oct 13th, 2016 at 3:56pm
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Sherman Bell wrote on the topic as well - in same journal.   I found 4198 a good candidate.    Some calibers fit the 40% rule perfectly (35-40) while my chronograph and target kept me considerably under 40% in my 40-63.   I have copies.  If you'd like one PM me your email but it will be a few weeks before I have access to my desktop.
  

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beltfed
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #5 - Oct 14th, 2016 at 2:18pm
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I would suggest you work with IMR 3031 or RL-7 for 
such rifles as your 500/450.
I helped a friend yrs ago to work up handloads for his
safe full of double rifles such as 450 No 2, 577 and 
his 600 nitro express.
I also have found 4895,  3031 and RL 7 all to work well 
in modest loads for my 1893 Marlin 38-55 , and my orig Win /86 45-70 and the Marlin Guide gun.
4895 works especially well in reduced loads. 
beltfed/arnie
  
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beltfed
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #6 - Oct 14th, 2016 at 2:21pm
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OH, and light load of 38 gr 3031 is listed
for the (weaker) BP substitute in the Trapdoor Springfield 45-70 with 400 gr bullet. 
beltfed/arnie
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #7 - Oct 17th, 2016 at 2:56am
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I received some reloader 15 loads from David Little, Kynamco a few years ago - I'll try and find them back.  They will give a nicely filled case, not too much space left in there.  After all, the case is quite a bit bigger than the 45-70.  I recently used that load for firelapping a rough bore in no.2 Musket...
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #8 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 3:11am
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Can't see if you got my post on the BMF board, so I'll put it back up here again:
58grs of RL15, 350gr (hornady jacketed) bullet - powder charge to about begin of neck, so nice fill level.  This is a nitro for black load, identical pressure according to David Little at Kynamco.
  
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Fazer
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Re: Cordite to new powder
Reply #9 - Oct 19th, 2016 at 9:29pm
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Thanks for that Gert,

The posts on BMF are here and gone, some problem,  I guess.

I have a 50-95 I'm working on loads at present, but once I get that sorted, Ill be giving the No 2 a go.
  
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