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H&A 932 (Read 9859 times)

JSB30 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 395 Location: Missouri Joined: Apr 30^th, 2011	H&A 932 Aug 29^th, 2016 at 5:06pm	Print Post
	Got my Hopkin Allen 932 out today to play with. Cal 32-20 WCF


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JSB30 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 395 Location: Missouri Joined: Apr 30^th, 2011	Re: H&A 932 Reply #1 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 5:08pm	Print Post
	One more. Using 4.7 Unique and a 90 grain bullet.


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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: H&A 932 Reply #2 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 6:28pm	Print Post
	I would have thought this is a 1932 Do you know the difference? I have what I think is a 1922 because of the checkering. Is it a conversion to centerfire? Aaron

	WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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JSB30 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 395 Location: Missouri Joined: Apr 30^th, 2011	Re: H&A 932 Reply #3 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 7:03pm	Print Post
	I don not know what a 1932 is. I think cal is original. It does not have a cal marked on it. It does not have H&A name on it either. It is the same one that DeHaas has a picture of in H&A rifles in Single Shot Rifles and Actions. It has a trade name of Murdock on it.


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: H&A 932 Reply #4 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 8:22pm	Print Post
	A "1932" was a mid grade 932. The last two digits are always the caliber, and they were always rimfire as far as anybody knows. 932 had a round barrel. 1932 had an octagon barrel, better wood, and some of H&A's "checkering", for which they hired left-handed bears. That one looks comparable to the top-line 2932 shown in a reproduction catalog that I have. Really decent wood, and better and more extensive checkering. Nice find! They are ridiculously easy to convert to .32 Colt centerfire, or with a reamer to .32 S&W. Only problem is the extractor, which doesn't extract very far. Needs a strong fingernail or a tool to get the fired case all the way out. The lack of H&A rollstamps is fairly common. H&A sold guns wholesale to anybody who would market them, and the marketer used his own stamps. My 1932 is marked "Enders Royal". In catalogs they did offer the 2938, which was chambered for .38 S&W centerfire. The only other centerfire they cataloged in this action was the .25-20 Stevens, in the "Schuetzen" model 3925. I can't find any evidence that they ever offered them in .32-20, but given their usually desperate condition they might well have for a gun to be marketed by a reseller. Or this one might be a gunsmith rework. Also in my catalog they claimed that the 2932 was rifled with their "patented increase twist". I'd love to see if that is true, and the O.P.'s rifle might provide the answer.
	« Last Edit: Aug 29^th, 2016 at 9:07pm by uscra112 »
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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: H&A 932 Reply #5 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 9:44pm	Print Post
	Phil, here are my two H&A 22's Can you identify the models? The second one with the side takedown has some case left on the upper tang. Aaron
	« Last Edit: Aug 29^th, 2016 at 9:52pm by Rebel »
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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: H&A 932 Reply #6 - Aug 29^th, 2016 at 9:49pm	Print Post
	Phil, 32-20 seems a bit much in these frames. My H&A/Merwin & Hulbert 32-20 is in a larger frame. Whatcha think? Aaron

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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: H&A 932 Reply #7 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 12:30am	Print Post
	Yah, I kinda think .32-20 is a bit much in the small frames. The only thing holding that barrel in is the takedown screw. The one with the takedown screw on the side is what was called a "Junior". Basic design ran from 1887(?) to 1898(?). I don't know if there were premium versions of the Junior. Mine has a round barrel, where yours is octagon. Maybe. Just make things difficult, Charlie Carder says there were Juniors made 1898 to 1900 that had the takedown screw on the bottom like the post 1900 version. So your Junior is definitely pre 1898. If the barrel is marked Merwin and Hulbert it is pre-1896. M&H was the marketer for H&A, but they went bankrupt in '96. The first photos look like a 1922. Sometime around 1898 they lengthened the frame of the Junior and moved the takedown screw to the bottom front. After the 1900 fire these were renamed 922/1922/2922. Octagon barrel but rather plain wood says 1922, since 922s had round barrels, and the 2922 would have much better wood. Cornell Publications has a number of H&A catalogs, and a reprint of the Vorisek book. Maybe also the Charlie Carder book.
	« Last Edit: Aug 30^th, 2016 at 1:16am by uscra112 »
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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: H&A 932 Reply #8 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 12:46am	Print Post
	Thanks Phil, Aaron

	WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1451 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: H&A 932 Reply #9 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:50pm	Print Post
	I think the 1922/1932 was characterized by that reverse curlicue in the end of the guard lever that the OP's and Rebel's first rifle has, and a noticeable perch belly in the lower line of the buttstock. The 922/932 has the full curve in the end of the lever like Rebel's second rifle and a straighter buttstock. The 1922 I had for a while wasn't checkered. My incomplete .32-20 is the earlier version small frame with the crossways barrel retaining screw, and the Merwin and Hulbert barrel markings. When the new version came out, the company must have realized that a smokeless cartridge might get into the chamber and dropped the chambering. The design does look neat. A mid size frame version, cast of modern alloy with a screw in barrel and tight tolerances in the parts, would make a pretty nifty rifle, with chamberings on the order of the "Little Sharps." I wonder that somebody hasn't tried to market one.


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: H&A 932 Reply #10 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 10:16pm	Print Post
	Something else noticable is the varying distances between the extractor screw and lever screw between the different models. They are closer together in the first two of Rebel's pictures, and spaced further apart in the last three pictures.
	« Last Edit: Aug 30^th, 2016 at 10:21pm by BP »
	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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Chuckster Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2224 Location: Colorado Joined: May 15^th, 2008	Re: H&A 932 Reply #11 - Aug 30^th, 2016 at 10:51pm	Print Post
	The design similarities between a Hopkins & Allen and a Walker-Hepburn are amazing. Not sure who copied who. Chuck


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: H&A 932 Reply #12 - Aug 31^st, 2016 at 2:07am	Print Post
	Bent_Ramrod wrote on Aug 30^th, 2016 at 8:50pm: The design does look neat. A mid size frame version, cast of modern alloy with a screw in barrel and tight tolerances in the parts, would make a pretty nifty rifle, with chamberings on the order of the "Little Sharps." I wonder that somebody hasn't tried to market one. It would be if the new maker adds a bit of angle to the block mortise so it will chamber a tight cartridge better, and do something about that miserable extractor.

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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: H&A 932 Reply #13 - Aug 31^st, 2016 at 5:38pm	Print Post
	Reshape the lower forward portion of the extractor so that the lever bumps it, slightly before the lever reaches its forward stop, and the lever roller reaches the bevel on the spring. And use a spring that matches the stiffness of the original. The extractor still has the original short travel, but is much snappier. By altering it so the lever drives the extractor, when you change the length of the link to make it a centerfire because someone told you it's so easy to do, you don't have to worry about having just screwed up the orginal geometry of the extractor timing. This is for the action that has the closer spaced lever and extractor screws as shown in Rebel's first two pictures.
	« Last Edit: Aug 31^st, 2016 at 5:52pm by BP »
	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: H&A 932 Reply #14 - Aug 31^st, 2016 at 6:15pm	Print Post
	Exactly ! Might cost a little bit more, but it would make a better rifle. The original design was cheap to make, and H&A was all about cheap.

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coljimmy Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 283 Joined: Nov 10^th, 2012	Re: H&A 932 Reply #15 - Sep 8^th, 2016 at 10:35pm	Print Post
	I believe the first rifle shown is a 2932 as it looks like the same checkering as a 2925 I just acquired. (Now what to do with it?) My 3925 in 25-20SS is a larger frame than my 3922 (RF). Also have a pre 1908 in 32-20 not tapped for a tang sight and a pre 1899 Junior in 38 S&W! The 32RF are easy to convert to 32 long Colt by raising the block up a tad with a new link. James


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: H&A 932 Reply #16 - Sep 9^th, 2016 at 5:02am	Print Post
	Starline now has .38 S&W brass.

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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: H&A 932 Reply #17 - Sep 9^th, 2016 at 7:19am	Print Post
	coljimmy wrote on Sep 8^th, 2016 at 10:35pm: I believe the first rifle shown is a 2932 as it looks like the same checkering as a 2925 I just acquired. (Now what to do with it?) My 3925 in 25-20SS is a larger frame than my 3922 (RF). Also have a pre 1908 in 32-20 not tapped for a tang sight and a pre 1899 Junior in 38 S&W! The 32RF are easy to convert to 32 long Colt by raising the block up a tad with a new link. James Interesting. Years ago I looked over, but did not buy, a .25-20 "Scheutzen" H&A. (Seller was asking more $$ than I could afford, even then when I had money to burn.) I remember it looking like a 922 frame, but being a little larger. Haven't seen another one since. Was thinking it was just my imagination. Could you post photos for comparison? Tooling up for a larger frame was a significant investment. Doesn't seem like they sold many.
	« Last Edit: Sep 9^th, 2016 at 7:25am by uscra112 »
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ron Oldtimer Offline Posts: 576 Location: Augusta Maine Joined: Nov 15^th, 2009	Re: H&A 932 Reply #18 - Sep 9^th, 2016 at 11:44am	Print Post
	Rebel Would you know where I could find a butt plate for my 922, so that I could finish my project? ron


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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: H&A 932 Reply #19 - Sep 9^th, 2016 at 7:47pm	Print Post
	Hi Ron, Keep trying Ebay, they show up pretty regularly. Aaron

	WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15994 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: H&A 932 Reply #20 - Sep 14^th, 2016 at 9:48am	Print Post
	ron wrote on Sep 9^th, 2016 at 11:44am: Rebel Would you know where I could find a butt plate for my 922, so that I could finish my project? ron If you don't mind a repro, Vintage Grips should have them.

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