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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Casting pot sludge... (Read 15401 times)
Pentz
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Casting pot sludge...
Aug 11th, 2016 at 5:44pm
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Spent the middle part of the day casting 225 bullets for my 32-20 and had more than the usual sludge problems so am swallowing my pride to ask the cause.  I was using certified (BACO) 25-1, casting at 700 degrees.  The catalyst was my dipper; it looks like a lead oxide is forming on it.  I used beeswax every 30 rounds or so, and some if it went back into solution.  Would it make sense to use a dipper other than cast pot metal?  I've not had similar issues using a 50-50 range scrap/linotype metal for my military '06.
  

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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #1 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 6:01pm
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  I don't know where you got a "pot metal" dipper, but, throw it away and get an RCBS dipper. Spray it with that graphite mould release stuff and your troubles will be over.
  

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bnice
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #2 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 9:33pm
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Agree
  
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uscra112
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #3 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 10:13pm
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Graphite mold release?   Have a source?   I didn't find anything like that at McMaster ("if we ain't got it you don't need it")-Carr.

"Pot metal" where I came from meant zinc.  Shocked    Surely your dipper ain't zinc !
  

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shovel80
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #4 - Aug 11th, 2016 at 10:39pm
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I think your fluxing way too often every 30 rounds?...I use parrafin once before casting, and don't again until I add more lead...
Or the next casting session.

Terry Smiley

  

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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #5 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 8:14am
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(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo

“There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse."

  Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #6 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 8:23am
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I use a Lee 20# pot and an old Lyman dipper. I flux with either flaked carnuba wax or powdered rosin. I only flux when I add to the pot whether it be sprue or more allow. I don't have that volume of gunk on the top of my pot. I do agree with the others that your perhaps fluxing too often. I flux and scrape the gunk off the top and keep on casting. On occasion I will get a bullet with some dirt in it, it just gets recycled. 
Sam
  
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desert-dude
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #7 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 10:30am
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diecast is typically a Zn-Al alloy but may also contain Mg. 

Al and Mg are pretty reactive and may make a nice mess in your pot. 
This does not imply that Zn is non-reactive it just gets trumped by the alkali metals.

Once they are oxidized they aren't going anywhere; too high a boiling pt. 
Alumina is not only a good abrasive but a good refractory.
  
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Pentz
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #8 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 3:30pm
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I ordered the RCBS dipper.  The dipper I was using was a rough casting and poorly-drilled spout, looked to be a Lyman.  There has been no zinc or other crap metal in this pot, so I figured the sludge was some lead oxide.  I flux with beeswax when the sludge forming on the dipper interfered with the pour.  Hopefully the new dipper will take care of things.
  

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bnice
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #9 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 6:06pm
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The mold release spray really helps but you need to redo it when it starts to stick again.
  
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #10 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 8:37pm
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The heretic among us - that's me, it is.

About four years ago, I stopped using casting flux altogether.  After reloading the pot with RotoMetals alloy, I just scrape the sides and stir until a light grey dross rises to the top.  Skim that off and I'm good to go.

So far, there have been no negative effects from not using flux.  Bullets fill out nicely and my moulds remain nice and clean.

JackHughs
  

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bnice
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #11 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 9:04pm
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Jack I'm Curious do you weigh your bullets? If so do they follow a good tight bell curve on the weights for a long session?
  
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JackHughs
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #12 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 9:31pm
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bnice wrote on Aug 12th, 2016 at 9:04pm:
Jack I'm Curious do you weigh your bullets? If so do they follow a good tight bell curve on the weights for a long session?


Yes.  I weigh every bullet. I mostly cast a David Mos designed .32 caliber 5-groove bullet.  The alloy is 1:20 and the indicated temperature is approximately 760 degrees.

It takes about four or five castings for the bullets to completely fill out. It takes another six or seven castings to achieve stable weight.  After that, bullet weights vary from 210.8 grains to 211.2 grains.

Most of the weight variance is due to my lack of attention.  I love my Lee pot but it requires constant manual adjustment to maintain indicated temperature.

JackHughs 
  

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Are full of passionate intensity.  W.B. Yeats
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Pentz
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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #13 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 10:10pm
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Thank you for the weight range results, Mr. Hughes.  90% of mine fall within a half grain either side and I was afraid that was too great when I see folks running within .2 or so.
  

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Re: Casting pot sludge...
Reply #14 - Aug 13th, 2016 at 1:31am
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I've also stopped using flux, except when I clean up scrap in great big lots, I use marvalux on the initial melt to get the dirt and crud out of it.   

I found that if I put the ingots in my lee pot, let it melt, use an aluminum rod to scrape the sides and bottom, and then skim off the dross, I can cast 30 to 50 bullets before I have to skim dross again.  I use my same ladle that I cast in to skim the dross, and strike off the gunk out of it by hitting it on the top of the discard can rim a few times.  I save the dross, and throw it back in with my initial clean up lead melt.  I think some of it may go back into alloy.

My .38 bullets cast 90% within .1 grain.  My .45 bullets cast 95% within .5 grain.  Most of the rejects are in the first dozen that I cast, that number goes down when I preheat the mold on my lab hotplate.  When I have cast .32, they nearly all fall within .1 grain.  The lighter bullets cast a lot more consistently.
  
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