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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed (Read 16550 times)
calledflyer
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #15 - Aug 9th, 2016 at 10:59pm
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QM, I think your speculation is pretty close to the way it must have been. When we remember these men and their rifles were trying to stay on the cutting edge of the game, it would make complete sense to dump the muzzle loading and reduce the amount of operations and handling done. Smart cookies, those old timers.
  
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Flatlander
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #16 - Aug 9th, 2016 at 11:03pm
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No problem Zack. I know you were kidding.  Smiley

I am sorry but I do not have any photos of it because as I stated earlier I haven't purchased it as of yet. Getting closer to jumping off the deep end. If nothing else, I could shoot it breech seated beside my Ballard #8 32-40 and be a happy camper. It does have scope blocks and palm rest which the Ballard is lacking. Still a lot of money to dish out. May have to go visit it again this weekend and fondle it awhile.

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Zack T
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #17 - Aug 9th, 2016 at 11:46pm
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FWIW i think that rifles with complete muzzleloading sets probably bring significantly more at time of sale. It can be expensive to be cool. If you could shoot the rifle that would really help but is hard to arrange. J- seriously ? I hope i am missing the sarcasm now so am gonna respond by pm.
  
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Zack T
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #18 - Aug 10th, 2016 at 12:38am
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We squared up via PM. Both decided that talking guns is more interesting than slinging mud. So- i am kinda hoping that Flatlander buys this Ron Long rifle just so we can see pics. Hope that Ron is doing well. Have not heard any news if him in quite a while. Ron would be placed at the top if anyones short list of "best of the best" gunsmiths- contemporary or otherwise.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #19 - Aug 10th, 2016 at 2:26am
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Zack,
Since this thread is about a RL barreled rifle, I guess it wouldn't be to OT to ask if anyone has heard about how Ron is doing.

Ron was my second mentor in this sport. W/o him, I would have never been able to get my first target rifle shooting. I spent many hours on the phone with him, he seemed to always have the time to help out.

Someone posted about 2 - 3 years ago, that he wasn't in very good condition. I don't remember who that was but, if there is some kind of update, I would, very much like to hear it.

To get back on topic, I would buy anything Ron Long if, I had the money (I always wanted one of his barrels). But, all I have is 6 of his molds.

Frank
  

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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #20 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 12:55pm
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FL - Photo of Chuck Brockway and Dave Stahl with the Ron Long Hiwalls they won at the 1983 Coor's Match. Ron did not have the rifles completed for the match but finished them beautifully in the weeks following, all of them were the same with pistol grip stocks.
7~
« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2016 at 1:16pm by old7groove »  
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Flatlander
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #21 - Aug 12th, 2016 at 2:33pm
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No, not the same rifle as these are pistol grips and half-round barrels. The one I am looking at is straight grip with full octagon barrel but same lever. I would think it was made for someone wanting a competitive rifle for the matches instead of prize? Nice picture though. Appreciate it. Have decided I need it but have to figure out how to pay for it on my retirement fixed income.

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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #22 - Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:07pm
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Ron's work was ONLY first class...ne plus ultra.
  

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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #23 - Aug 15th, 2016 at 9:36pm
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Just my 10c worth but one of the reasons that muzzle loading the bullet was considered better was because when breech seating a bullet some bullet metal was displaced towards the bullets base, sometimes causing small fins which were considered detrimental to accuracy. By seating the bullet from the muzzle, any metal so displaced was towards the front of the bullet where it didn't matter as much.
There are a couple of disadvantages with the false muzzle idea. Firstly there is the cost, making a false muzzle is time consuming and therefore expensive. Secondly when the false muzzle is removed the end of the barrel has no crowning so is more easily damaged.
All in all breech seating works as well with a lot less loading effort. As for resale I think a ML/BL will hold its value better owing to the rarity factor.
Mike.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #24 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 4:02am
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I found my Stevens-Pope 33-47 to shoot BP best ML and smokeless shoots best BS.  The proper BS bullet is too large to shoot ML.   The ML bullet doesn't shoot premium accuracy BS.  YMMV.
  

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uscra112
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #25 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:21am
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Matter of curiosity....a B/ML barrel would not need a tapered leade in front of the chamber.  So how easy is breech seating in one?
  

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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #26 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:25am
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Having made quite a few muzzle/breech loading rifles a few comments. I agree with SM best results with BP when proper bullet is muzzle loaded, even better results when breech seated with proper smokeless powder and bullet are used. The proper bullet for m/l should be tapered (Pope style) where forward band is bore dia. and base band groove to .002 over groove dia., cast 30 to 40 to 1 alloy. 
  The false muzzle if properly made is actually throated in reverse with a free bore that allows the bullets to be entered into it base first for most of its length. With the f/m in place the bullet starter is put place and the bullet is 
pushed several inches into the rifling. The end of the starter rod must also have a brass end that conforms to the nose of the bullet being used. The loading rod is used to push the bullet through the barrel until the base makes contact with a plug case placed in the chamber. By muzzle loading the bullet it was claimed that the bullet could be more centered in the rifling and by the process of pushing the bullet through the bore it cleaned fouling from the 
previous shot. Keep in mind the barrel should be rifled with a slight choke 
and tapered bullet used to cause as little deformation to the bullet as possible. When the bullet is fired the soft alloy will cause the tapered bullet to 
upset to fill the rifling grooves. 
  I always throated my barrels for breech seating and supplied two moulds with the rifle one for m/l and one for b/l. The b/l bullet was cylindrical having only a slight taper. Also both the barrel and the false muzzle are both slightly crowned.
7~
 
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2016 at 10:38am by old7groove »  
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old7groove
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #27 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 1:40pm
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Joe- S--t Happens  Cry  Like shooting off the false muzzle Cheesy better luck this time.
7~
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #28 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 2:38pm
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uscra112 wrote on Aug 16th, 2016 at 8:21am:
Matter of curiosity....a B/ML barrel would not need a tapered leade in front of the chamber.  So how easy is breech seating in one? 

BS in mine requires mechanical advantage.  There is the end of the case, then the rifle 's bore; no tapered throat.  I used a push type seater on a couple of other rifles I shot for a while.  

I can feel the choke in my Pope when cleaning. 

I have shot the FM more than once Undecided  The bullet hits an inch or two low at 200 yds Roll Eyes

The sight block pin doesn't show in a scope.  I  attached a plastic shield to the pin that definitely blocks the scope  Grin
  

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Re: Breech Muzzle Loader Information Needed
Reply #29 - Aug 16th, 2016 at 3:00pm
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Have seen Pope f/m barrels that had no throat and some with, I don't,t know if they left his shop that way or if they may have been throated later with the advent of smokeless powder. I throated mine since most would be shot b/s, most of my customers were more interested in the BLING Factor of a false muzzle rifle.
7~
  
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