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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) fireforming brass (Read 27945 times)
Mick B
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fireforming brass
Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:49pm
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I purchased some .303 British cases to fire form into 40/60 Maynard, before someone jumps on me I realise they will probably come up a little short. As I only breech seat my projectiles in this rifle I don't think this will be a big issue.
Today I decided to try to form one of the cases, I filled it with Swiss 1.5 and pressed a paper plug in the case mouth. The end result was that the case is now partially formed but will not accept a .40 bullet.
My question is this, should I have annealed the case first, and secondly perhaps I should have used some type of the evil white powder instead of black ?.
Mike.
  
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jy3855
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:56pm
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Back when I was much more frugal  and I needed brass for my 375 Win Ruger No. 3, I fire formed quite a few 30-30 cases to fit my Ruger.

I annealed the neck and shoulder prior to fire forming, used a small charge of Bullseye or Red Dot - don't remember how much, but probably around 10 grains - then filled the case with Cream of Wheat and fired the rifle straight up in the air. Result was a nicely ironed-out case.
  
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bpsmoke
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 11:32pm
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Mike,

I just went through fireforming 30-40 Krag brass into 38-50 Rem Hepburn.

Black powder doesn't fully form them.

I annealed them first, then used 8 gr of bullseye. Fill almost full with cornmeal and stuff in some tissue. They were fully formed and ready for trimming.

BP

  
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Hiwall55
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #3 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 7:02am
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8-10. grains of bullseye,cream of wheat. Fired straight up, works for 38-50 Rem and 40-60 Maynard
  
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Mick B
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #4 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 8:11am
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Thanks for the info, I will see if bullseye powder is available here. As I was at loose ends this afternoon I decided to anneal the other 19 cases as I figured it couldn't do any harm. 
By the way I'm not quite sure what cream of wheat is, is it like oatmeal or something ?.
Mike
  
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jy3855
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #5 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 9:21am
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Mick,

Cream of Wheat is a ground wheat porridge. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Do you have corn meal in Oz?
  
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oneatatime
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #6 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 11:49am
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Mike it doesn't have to be Bullseye. 8 or 9 grains of any fast pistol powder or shotgun powder will work. Cream of wheat (fine ground wheat for porridge) works best but hominy grits or corn meal will work it's just that they stink a little plus it is a shame for y'all to waste hominy grits that way.
  
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Mick B
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #7 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 10:03pm
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Thanks to all for your help, I can scrounge some pistol powder from someone around here and I am reliably informed that cream of wheat is available at the supermarket.
Mike.
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #8 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 10:32pm
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Great info.  I neglected the cream of wheat when I tried it last.  Just put a wad in the case mouth with some Unique.   

I'd like to share this though because I thought it was interesting even if a departure from fireforming with blanks, so to speak.

I had a bunch of very slightly undersized bullets given to me so I loaded them with a wad at the base thinking (rightly) that it would protect from leading.

They shot great and actually grouped great but when I measured them they changed only the neck where (where they were annealed) but they hadn't touched the diameter down near the base at the web ending.   I took a handful of five and did that 3 times without changing the base diameter to the full chamber diameter.   So I loaded some Black Powder for similar velocity.   One shot!  Fully formed!  Even down by the base where the web tries to hold it's shape.   These were Hornady 405s for a 40-63, so once fireformed the case has a slight bulge right above the web.   Was surprised the reforming was so complete compared to the similar velocity load of nitro.

I'll use cream of wheat next time per he advice here.
  

Best Regards,
John
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Chuckster
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #9 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 11:26pm
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Expand case neck to diameter and depth required. Anneal after.
Bullet or wad for breech seat.
Normal load, shoot as any practice round. Sometimes surprisingly accurate. Nice fire-form.
Chuck
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #10 - Jul 28th, 2016 at 6:27pm
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You can stuff in some toilet paper fpr wadding.  Wet the last wad in
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Mal
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #11 - Jul 28th, 2016 at 7:29pm
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Mick B,
          G,day Mick if you can't find COW rice flour works a treat,I use 10gns Red Dot ,fill the case with rice flour and top it with a LDP wad. 

      Cheers Mal.
  
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Mick B
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #12 - Jul 30th, 2016 at 9:47pm
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Today I was at the range to fire form the 303 cases to 40/60 Maynard, forty cases in all.
As I was unable to find cream of wheat at the supermarket, or rice flour I had to settle for stuff labelled Oat Bran.
I scrounged enough pistol powder so I had 10gr in each case, these were filled to the top with the oat bran and a plug of tissue used to keep it all in place.
The end result when they were fired was that the case mouth ID is now .360" so it would still not accept a .408" bullet.
I may have to use the expander plug in order to seat the bullets without shaving any lead off them.
I'm beginning to regret starting all this but I guess it's character building.
Mike.
PS  As I was standing alongside the rifle when forming the cases and not sitting behind it, some at the range may now think I may have lost my marbles.
  
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Mick B
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #13 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 10:33pm
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Well things got worse with my fire forming efforts, perhaps I didn't use the right powder, ( 10 gr ), which I was assured was equal to bullseye powder. Secondly, as I could not find cream of wheat or rice flour I used oat bran.
As a result the cases were not blown out enough in the neck area to accept my .40 cal bullet.
At this point  things went badly wrong when I tried to solve the problem by using my expander plug to open up the case necks to accept the bullet. The end result of this action was that as the neck was expanded, it was also forced downward causing a bulge below the neck area. The case would not chamber in the rifle.  I thought running it  through the FL die would cure this problem but the case went into the die without a problem which indicated to me that my chamber may be pretty tight.
At this point I decided to force a case into the rifles using a flat ended punch and a light hammer. As the Stevens has a weak extractor I had to use a cleaning rod to eject the case. 
I then went through this procedure with a further 19 cases and loaded them with 57 gr of 2F and my 415 gr money bullet.
All were fired with no ill effect, other than the fact that the case had to be pushed out with the cleaning rod after each firing.
These fired cases are still difficult to chamber requiring force to fully seat. There is still evidence of a slight bulge below the case neck where the case is approximately two thou larger in diameter than my normal cases that were purchased from BACO. The cases I got from BACO were formed from 30/40 Krag brass. As there was no evidence of fire forming showing on these cases I presume another method was used.
As a matter of interest the cases made from 303 British came out twenty thou shorter than the brass I got from BACO, perhaps another firing using a load of Swiss 1.5 may cause them to lengthen a little further when the slight bulge is ironed out more. All this has taught me a valuable lesson, don't do it again.
Mike.
  
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mike in Va.
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Re: fireforming brass
Reply #14 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 11:00pm
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Well, I found this suggestion very useful for me.  I need to form some 44/60 Sharps cases from Buffalo Arms to an unusual 45/60 Remington caliber.  With 10 gr of Unique topped with grits the cases filled out perfectly.   Clean and easy.  I did anneal the cases first.  It worked much better that the first few I tried with BP.
  
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