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Mick B
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40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Jul 26th, 2016 at 6:10am
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I have a CPA  44 1/2 chambered in 40/60 Maynard with a Krieger barrel 1-16 twist .400" - .408"
Presently I have been using a BACO bullet Mould # JIM 409420M2 which produces ( in my alloy, 20-1 ) a bullet that weighs 416 gr and is 1.450" long, with a reduced front driving band, which I breech seat.
This combination has provided quite excellent accuracy by black powder standards which is what I use exclusively.
However I was wondering if another bullet may shoot even better if it was of a different length or perhaps a different weight. BACO list a bullet # JIM 409430C2, described as a Creedmoor, with a tapered first band and a length of 1.385" that weighs, according to the catalogue, 430 gr.
Based on the twist of my barrel and the length of this Creedmoor bullet, is there any reason to believe that this bullet may be superior to the one I already have ?. Has anyone had good success with any other bullet using black in a .40 cal rifle ?. For what it's worth our black powder club shoots mainly at 100 meters from the bench. 
Mike.
  
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beltfed
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:35am
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Take a look at my Elliptical Minigroove bullet, second from the right. It is 1.325" long, Wt 367 gr,it will stabilize and shoot very well out to 1000yds in my 16 twist 40-65.  Shoots into minute of angle. Shot 88/100 at 1K and 99/100 at 800yds.
Also, if you are into Paper Patching, the third one from right
is my Elliptical PP bullet made for the 16 twist 40s. Also a minute of angle bullet. 1.325" long and 373 gr.
beltfed/arnie
  
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beltfed
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #2 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:38am
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I have a LYman "Snover" bullet in the above pic on far right for comparison.
That is 1.375" long, about 400 gr. Shoots well out to midrange in the 16 twist

( bullets and ctg on right is for my 40-72 /12 twist rifle.)
beltfed/arnie
  
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derrickman
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #3 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:30am
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40-65 with 57.0 grs Swiss 1.5F using Pioneer 40902445.
Casts 446 grs & holds over 1 gr of lube. Good out to rams & turkeys.
  
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 9:40pm
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I have a couple of 40/60 Maynard'sand shoot the bullet you do and the 400 grain Kidwell money but I go a different way on a close range bullet. I shoot a BACO 395 grain creedmoor for my chicken bullet. The difference is 65 grains of powder versus 55 to 57 grains, and the accuracy is great.
  
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Mick B
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 10:20pm
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Firstly thanks for the replies, all this stuff about the right length of bullet relative to the barrel twist just confuses me.
Let me put it this way, would a bullet 1.450" long be better in a 1-16 twist barrel than one that was 1.350" long ?.
Beltfed/Arnie
I have had very little experience with paper patched bullets other than in my 45/90, at the short distances I was shooting I could not get the PP bullets to shoot any better than my greasers. I have absolutely no doubt that with more experimenting this may have changed. I can fully appreciate the advantages of the smooth projectiles at the longer ranges from an aerodynamic view, but at 100 and 200 meters maybe not much of an advantage perhaps.
You make mention of some of the bullets shown as being MOA bullets, is this with smokeless, or BP ?.
Presently I'm using between 71 and 72 gr of either Swiss 1.5 or Wano PP, the 72 gr Swiss load gives me an average MV of 1344.4 fps with a spread of 42 fps, the Wano 72 gr load gives an average of 1249.8 fps with an ES of 37 fps.
For comparison the Wano load shot a .840" five shot group with  the best four going into .675". the Swiss group measured 1.120" with the best four going into1.090", as conditions were far from perfect with a moderate wind from 7 o'clock the difference in group sizes could have just been a result of the wind variation, or my complete lack of wind doping ability.
Schuetzen Dave'
You mention the Paul Jones bullet, I was under the impression he was no longer making moulds, so was yours a copy of a PJ design or what ?. If it was a copy, who made it and was the quality equal to an original PJ mould, I have two for the 45/90 and one for my 38/56, all of which cast bullets so lovely that I hate to shoot  them.
Mike.
  
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beltfed
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #6 - Jul 26th, 2016 at 11:34pm
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My loads for the 40-65 and the 40-72 are straight BP
Attached is a 5 shot group shot at 100 yds with the 
40-65 EPP bullet over 74.5 gr Swiss 1.5.
  
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Mick B
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #7 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 8:39am
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Beltfed.
My case will only hold 72 gr of PP Wano if I carefully drop tube it down a 24" drop tube, I then press a .060" veggie wad on top of the powder with thumb pressure. This puts almost no compression on the powder at all.  What advantage do you see in shooting your PP bullets in fixed ammo as opposed to breech seating them if you were only going to shoot at 100 meters, and wiping between shots was OK, there being no time restraints.  We have an analytical laboratory here in Canberra and I'm going to see if they will analyse a sample of the Swiss 1.5 for me to determine its composition. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why a coarse 1 1/2 F powder should have so much more power than a finer grade like 2F Wano, perhaps there might be a dash of something else in the mix maybe. Anyway apart from all this what would your recommendation be for a greaser to try instead of my current BACO 415 gr Money bullet,  keeping in mind that it would be desirable for it to be tapered in some way for ease of breech seating.
Mike.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #8 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 10:59am
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Here are a couple of bullets that you might like for BSing. They are Ron Long designs. If you don't recognize the name, he's one of the top mold makers of the resent past. They are very prized molds.

The first one is the original mold, for a .408 groove barrel,the second I modified so it could be made by Accurate molds and a .410 barrel. They won't make a mold with a meplat smaller than .180. If you choose to use the one I re-designed for Accurate, just have them reduce the bands .002.

Frank
  

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beltfed
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #9 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 1:26pm
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Mick B,
See attached drg of my 367 grain Tapered Elliptical Minigroove bullet. It is  taper designed and fits "way out" in the freebore/leade/barrel in typical 40-65 chambers.
Indeed, in my rifle the bullet finger seats only about0.125" into fire formed brass. You ask "why not breech seat?"
I have so far mainly shot mid and long range BPTR and gong  matches where there are time constraints and so "fixed" ammo is handy and quick. 
I am loading  the ctges only with powder and 0.060 LDPE wad seated to that 0.125". 
Then, just before I go to the line, I finger seat the bullets carefully as I put them in my line loading block.
OH, I had Steve Brooks cut this Elliptical Minigroove bullet mold
You are welcome to use my drawing of my 40 cal EMini
bullet, with appropriate diameter tweaking to suit your fully
breech seating them.   
  
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Mick B
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Re: 40/60 Maynard bullet choices
Reply #10 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 10:29pm
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Thanks everybody for the replies, in the interest of simplicity I think I will just order the BACO Creedmoor bullet, providing they have one in stock. If they don't then I will go with one of the others suggested and have Steve Brooks make the mould.
I have two Brooks moulds and both are excellent.
Mike.
  
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