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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) lube problem?... (Read 15029 times)
calledflyer
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lube problem?...
Jul 21st, 2016 at 3:49pm
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I got home from the range frustrated today. My groups went all to heck- me, partly. But, even when I felt my performance was OK, the gun shot groups over twice what would be normal. Like, two inches even. At a hundred. 
It's hot, dry, a little breezy. Bullets had lube mixed up last winter and shot real good then and in the spring. There is no sign of lube star- hence my worry.
Should I soften, or harden this lube? Frankly, I'm lost since this never happened quite like this before. Me, I can understand, but  even when I was off the lube ring was there- hot or cold. 
Help........... Cry
  
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frnkeore
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #1 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 3:56pm
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What lube and bullet are you using?

Frank
  

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calledflyer
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #2 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 4:53pm
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Three different bullets Frank- Ideal 321232, a Clerke mold, and one that I got from the Simmons estate. All cylindrical, with long bearing and plenty of grooves (till now?) All consistent shooters, especially the first one. Weights from about 182 to 196 grs. Alloy on the first and last is WW/soft lead equal with tin added- my usual. The Clerke was cast in 20:1. No leading seen with any of 'em.
Lube is my own made from Parafin, alox, vaseline and crayons for color. Used it's predecessors for years- mixed by eye with the vaseline being a variable to see about hardness. Not real hard,or too free flowing. 
So, since all were using "normal" stuff, I was perplexed with the lack of accuracy and of course, lube star. Mystery to me- not that I haven't been lost in the woods most of my life. Thanks fer responding, I knew I could count on ya. 
And, yeah, I was stupid enough to think it'd just go back to regular if I kept shooting. Silly, silly, me!
  
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frnkeore
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #3 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 6:50pm
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As I remember, you shoot fixed? I'm not sure if that would be a issue but, maybe others have a idea, regarding it.

I only shoot BSed and the only thing that comes to mind, at this time, is that years ago, I used Darr Lube, it's excellent lube but, starting at about 80+ deg, it could loose it's lube qualitys. Darr Lube is 50/50 vaseline and paraffin, with a little (2 oz) of RCBS case lube added.

I could get around the issue, even in 100+ degrees, by keeping my bullets in a small ice chest, only pulling them out when I shot my target and then putting them back in. 

I gave up the Darr, because of that and I use Javalina Schuetzen Lube now. 

So my only suggestion at this point, is to keep your loaded rounds in a ice chest (6 pack type)  and give that a try. 

Frank

  

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calledflyer
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #4 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 7:03pm
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Hot as it is here right now, I'd have other than bullets in an ice chest Cheesy
I wish that I knew more about lube. What is flummoxing me is the utter failure here. Never happened in, well, ever. 
I do have a little bit of SPG that I could try. And some ungreased slugs. 
At only 80 degrees your lube failed a little? Seems low, but what do I know? Was it likely on the part of the Vaseline?
Thanks for the help Frank. You have always had helpful words  Smileyfor me. Us.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #5 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 9:10pm
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At 80 deg, I had to start watching, it might not lead but, depending on the conditions, it was possible. When something fails during a match, you don't get a second chance. 

Darr is one of the best lubes in cooler weather and I got excellent accuracy with it.

Frank
  

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calledflyer
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #6 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 9:40pm
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Well heat above 80 degrees sure was the case today. But, I've shot even hotter without any problem. Well, I think there wasn't any problem. Quien sabe?
Anyhoo....... where can I lay hands on some of the Javelina to give it a whirl. I noticed there wasn't any rush to inform me that SPG would make my troubles go away. haha.....
John, the bullet fit is long worked out, so not likely to be the culprit in this case. No leading happened today, oddly. Actually, the slugs were from the same batches that I've been using since spring, I cast enough to get me through the summer because I cast outside and hate to do it in the summer weather.
Frank, just for grins I may take some in a cooler, since heat is in the forecast around here, just to see if they "come back". That'd sure make the mystery easier to solve. Funny that it just happened out of the blue, so to speak.
Thanks guys, good to have a board of consultants when this stuff pops up.
 
Did anybody ever try to adjust the mix in the Darr lube to try to improve it? Mine has alox (Lee) in addition and isn't just 50/50 on the other ingredients. I usually dip a bullet into the mix until the lube stays in the groove and doesn't crack out easily, if ya know what I'm trying to tell here. Long ramble, so I'll let this one settle out. Later, I have a couple of other lube queries for yer consideration. Thank again.
  
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #7 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 10:47pm
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Great dialogue. I had a bad/poor/lousy session last week including leading. Use SPG. Prior week made me smile with the same bullets/lube. I might have picked up some good hints here. Thank you all.
  
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JS47
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #8 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 11:11pm
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What are you more experienced shooters thoughts on plain old NRA formula 50/50 alox and beeswax?   

JS
  
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #9 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 8:56am
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My go to fix is to add lanolin to the lube. Lanolin has some amazing properties and will make your lube slicker than snot. About a tablespoon per pound will help.

40 Rod
  
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #10 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 10:30am
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Depending on the powder I would be a bit concerned about cooling fixed ammo to "beer drinking" temperatures.  Some powders change burning properties quite a bit below 60 F or above 90 F.   

I finally gave up on making my own lubes and now use Javalina or my stash of Dell 59c.  The guys in Alberta use Alberta Schuetzen lube to good success, I've not tried it.   

BTW...I is have always suspected that barrel temperature is the issue.  In hot weather they just get HOT.  Next time I shoot I will measure the barrel temp after each shot.   

Humidity is an issue with black powder but wiping after every shot is what I do now.  I'm hard pressed to see how humidity can have much effect on the little bit of fouling in a tiny 32 cal bore but I'm often wrong on shooting theories.   

I use SPG exclusively with black powder but I don't have any experience with it and smokeless.   

Keep us informed of your results.   

Dave
  
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #11 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 10:51am
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My go to lube is 50% beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Vaseline. I don't color it, but a crayon dropped in if you want color. It works all year round, and I use it pan lubed or in my Lyman lubrisizer also. Leaves a great lube star if your bullet design holds lube well.
  

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calledflyer
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #12 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 2:17pm
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Utah Dave, I don't propose to get ammo down to "iced" temp, but in the winter I do shoot at temps that are in the teens. I'm not real concerned with harm from the cold powder, but it does have a little, just a little, bearing on performance. Thanks for the caution, but if it served to point out a lube difference it would be an illuminating test.
40-Rod, I've never added lanolin, but may try some in a future batch, having heard about it often. Think I could add a wee bit to what I already have? Profitably, that is.
Vall, since you shoot a lot of fixed, do you get any bleeding in the hot weather? That is part of why my mix got the general blend it does- no storage or handling issues. But, if it has quit working, what to do, hey?
  
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #13 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 2:52pm
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Just a thought...
Higher temps can cause some petroleum products to lose  volitile components at a faster rate.
Animal products can contain some moisture, which can also transfer into hot dry air.
  

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John Boy
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Re: lube problem?...
Reply #14 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 3:12pm
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Vaseline MSDS:
SECTION X.  STABILITY & REACTIVITY
STABLE:         Yes 
       
SPECIAL CONDITIONS TO AVOID:   
Extreme heat

If were me - I would can the Vaseline in the lube and use mutton tallow
  
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