I already posted this over on the "Cast Boolits" site, but it was suggested that I cross post it here too.  Been "lurking" for a while since I've always been a single shot rifle lover and have a few in my varied collection of guns.

A few days ago I bought another one of my personal "holy grail" guns ... a JM Marlin / Ballard No. 5 Pacific model!

This one is a .40-90 Ballard with 30" octagon barrel and the bore is in very good condition. (And no, it doesn't have a bulge up near the muzzle ... that is just a shadow in the photo I took.) The muzzle is a bit banged up, but the previous owner was shooting it using .40-90 Bertram cases (20 rounds of brass came with the gun) and the RCBS 400 grain .410 Silhouette bullet. He said it would stay on the 100 yard practice pig target at his range without any trouble, so I'll shoot it a bit on paper first before I make any attempts to touch up the crown. The buttstock, buttplate, and wiping rod are replacements and the gun is mostly medium brown, but it's nice and tight so it's nice enough to shoot, but not so nice that I'll feel guilty about shooting it.

I'll have to make a cerrosafe casting of the chamber to see if it is chambered for the .40-90 Ballard or the .40-90 Ballard Ideal "Everlasting". I suspect the latter since the supplied fire-formed Bertram .40-90 cases are swollen at the base ahead of the rim leading me to think it is either a big chamber or that it might be in the thicker "Everlasting" case, but a cerrosafe casting should tell the story.  The previous owner was shooting the Bertram cases with 80 grains of black and the RCBS 400 grain conventional grooved Silhouette bullet with good success, but I think this is a perfect opportunity for me to finally jump in and try paper patching smooth sided bullets.  (I've been reloading conventional cast bullets for years to shoot in many of my old time rifles.)

Is anyone out there shooting the .40-90 Ballard cartridge that can same me some time and offer any loading tips?  Since I'm up in Canada I've already emailed "Red River Rick" in Winnipeg to inquire about an adjustable .40 calibre paper patch mould.

Cheers,

Al

(Replaced old Photobucket photos into the above post.)

Oh ... the way ... it is serial number 7930 which from a "best guess" based on rough production numbers would put it at about 1877 or 1878 for manufacture?

Chuckster wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 9:06am:


What "insert" Chuck? Looks like the back edge of the breech block halves to me?

You all are right, and I missed it.
My trigger plate extends back to cover that area and assumed all DST Ballard's were like that. (Ass-u-me)
Still a very nice rifle.
Chuck

PS: Don ... I'm assuming that your load is 8 weighed grains of SR4759 topped with 80 grains of FG by volume?  (Or are you weighing the black powder charge as well?)  Are you using a card wad or a grease cookie over the powder charge and under the bullet?  Any powder compression?

Thanks again for the info!

Al

rustyrelx wrote on Jun 27^th, 2016 at 11:49am:

Bulk and buld not weighed..

PS 40-90 Ballard is a favorite cartridge. Groove diameter should be .410  Forget about all the .403 stuff that everybody writes about. UNLESS you use a paperpatched projectile. And .403 would be a good place to start BEFORE you patch it.
I like the .40-90 Ideal also.

I personally would not go that routebut if you must there are diffrent rim thicknesses, make sure you get the think one. $5 a round? never saw one that expensive. Get a box of Bertrams from Buffalo arms with the .477 head size.
  Don
probable not going to shoot it THAT much

Well, I just "pulled the trigger" on the purchase of 500 (yes, five hundred) rounds of once fired Norma 9.3x74R brass from a company over in Germany.  (It was hard to resist since I'm buying it for about the same price I would have to pay for 40 rounds of brand new Hornady 9.3x74R brass up here in Canada!)  When it arrives I'll see how the case dimensions compare to the chamber in my Ballard.  I want to try fire-forming it into some "shooter" brass in .40-90 Ballard.  If it doesn't work out to make cases for the Ballard then I'll just reform it all into full length 3" brass .410 cases instead ...

Yep ... I'll keep you posted and let you know how it works out!  It will likely take a little while though.  The company in Germany wouldn't ship the once fired brass to me in Canada, so I had to get them to ship it to a friend of mine that lives in Hamburg and then he'll re-ship it to me in Canada ... and my friend is away on holidays until August 4th so he can't ship them to me until after he gets back home.  It's a bit of a convoluted mess just to source some brass, but at the price I'm paying for the 500 rounds of once fired Norma brass I couldn't turn it down ...  (Up here in Canada thanks to the current exchange rate 20 rounds of brand new Hornady 9.3x74R brass would cost me $75.00 Canadian!)



SgtDog0311 wrote on Jul 16^th, 2016 at 6:58pm:

Your lube formula is close to what I use. I use 50% beeswax, 40%Crisco, and 10% Vaseline.

Thanks for the info.  Yes, I was aware that this is a paper-patch chamber (virtually no throat ... the rifling begins at the end of the chamber) and I don't have any plans to alter it in any way.  The previous owner was shooting these RCBS 400 grain bullets with fairly good success rather than paper patching so I'm going to try a few since he supplied these samples with the rifle.  I used a cleaning rod to measure COAL using this bullet and will load the sample cases with black until the bullet lightly touches when the cartridge is seated and will try that to see how it shoots.  (The PO was shooting about 80 grains of 2F with these bullets.)  I've been swapping emails with Red River Rick out in Winnipeg and I plan to have him make me one of his adjustable smooth sided paper patch moulds so that I can try making some traditional style 370 grain PP bullets for it.  Looks like the PP bullet should be cast at about .400" to .403" and then patched up to .410"?  Been contemplating trying paper patching for years, so this rifle will finally be a good excuse to "push me over the edge" and I'll give it a try.  I'll keep you posted ...

Well, I loaded the 19 Bertram cases I have on hand yesterday and will test shoot them tomorrow up at our local range.  In the end I settled on loading a small, hand weighed "kicker" charge of 6 grains of SR4759 over the primer (I used CCI 200 Large Rifle) and then I drop tubed in 80 grains (by volume measure) of 3F.  When the bullet was seated to lightly engage the rifling it compressed everything slightly.  I had no issues chambering any of the loaded rounds so the "as cast" diameter of .410" doesn't look like it will be a problem.  I'll give these a shot (literally) and see what happens on paper tomorrow.  I'm planning on wiping wet and then dry between shots, but I'll see how dirty the bore is between shots to see if the "kicker" is helping to reduce fouling in the cases and bore or not.
I had the same thought after my home-brew lube solidified and now I'm wondering if the cake I had on hand was beeswax or not?  I got it from a friend and he claimed it was purified beeswax from a local honey company, but maybe not?  If worse comes to worse I'll source a new supply of raw, yellow beeswax and can add it to the existing mix?  I'll see how it works out tomorrow when I shoot these first sample rounds.
Again, I'll keep you posted ...

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OK, finally got this Ballard Pacific up to the range today and fired a few of the test loads I made for it and it's staying on paper, but the groups weren't stellar.  I shot a few "dirty" and then shot a few wiping wet and then dry patching between shots, but couldn't see much difference in accuracy to be honest.  Didn't get a chance to concentrate on best groups since I was hosting my young next door neighbour to a day of shooting instruction and coaching, so I'll take it up another day on my own when I can shoot some more serious test groups.  With the 80 grain load it has a respectable "push" ... with a bit more recoil than my 1885 Winchester in .40-82 WCF, but not too bad.  I'll try some 2F and 1F loads and see if there is much difference in the groups too.  Again, I'll keep you posted as I shoot it more ...

Al, just FYI, last weekend I had the privilege of helping an gentleman work up a load for his grandfathers 1885 Winchester, S/N dates to 1886.  It is in 40-90 Sharps straight also and has the chamber and shallow rifling for PP bullets.  Best load, and it was remarkable, was the Lyman bullet similar to your RCBS except I believe mine is more of a bore rider.  I used Federal 215 primers and some of my old GOEX Ctg. powder, the good batch, at 83 grs. in some machined brass the guy had bought.  Lube was SPG and bullet alloy 25-1.  Without checking I think my bullet diameter is .409-.410.  Seated just off the lands at 50 yards it shot one ragged hole....then did it again.   

The gentleman did not have the time for us to load some more and put it on paper at 100 yds. and farther.  I sure would have liked to and learned if the accuracy would hold.

Well ...  I'm a bit of a "shootin' fool" and in the end rather than 500 rounds instead I bought 1200 rounds of once fired Norma 9.3x74R brass out of Germany and had it shipped over.  Sold about half of it to recover costs and now I have fire-formed several hundred rounds for use in this Ballard!



rustyrelx wrote on Jun 29^th, 2016 at 2:34pm:

sharps4590 wrote on Jul 25^th, 2016 at 7:40am:


The .40-90 Sharps Straight, and .40-90 Ballard/.40-85 Everlasting, are not the same case. The Sharps being 3.25" long where the Ballard is 2.94" long. But the rim and base diameter are almost identical.

My friend Holger is over from Hamburg, Germany right now for his annual holiday visit to Canada so I "forced" him to go up to our local range with me and fire-form a bunch more of the Norma 9.3x74R brass in my Ballard Pacific.



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I've been following this thread with great interest as about ten years or so ago I acquired a similar 40-90 Ballard #5 Pacific from the estate sale of an old gunsmith friend of mine.  Anyway, it has all matching numbers in the receiver and butt, but the barrel and fore end have a different (but self matching) serial number.  Then to cap it off, there is no caliber marking on the barrel, although everything else seems "normal."  I identified the chambering by a chamber cast and my one example of a paper patched 40-90 round which appears to be a perfect fit.

So, why don't I buy up a bunch of the metric German brass and start loading?  Because the bore is what I would call marginal... not badly pitted, but a VERRRYY long way from pristine.  I am hesitant to put forth the cash and effort to build a batch of this ammo only to find out the bore isn't good enough to support good accuracy.  As an alternative, I'm wondering about having that unmarked barrel rebored to 45-70 so it will be easy to get ammo and I'll have a fresh bore to work with.  Decisions, decisions. 

Froggie

So far my reformed Norma 9.3x74R brass is working very well, but I have the same problem as you with the small rims.  If I'm careful to ensure that the extractor is seated before I chamber a cartridge it will extract with no issues, but if I'm not careful it's easy to let the small rim slip behind the extractor and then like you I need to knock the cartridge back out with a cleaning rod.  I just have to pay attention and make sure the extractor is seated first.  (And it sure is nice to have LOTS of shooter brass for a very reasonable price!)

OK, good to know!  I'll pick up some O rings and try that ...

Just a rubber o-ring, you can use them over and over again.  They are cheap if you need to replace any.

Thanks for the thought, Rev Al.  Maybe I could come to Canada and sew a fringe of brass jingle bobs on my Hudson Bay Capote coat to bring them back across the line from one land of crazies to a different land of crazies.  As they said on an album cover about 40 years ago, "We're all bozos on this bus!"

It seems like I have some brass around here somewhere to try.  Maybe I can cobble something together, but then I'll have to load for yet another caliber. 

Froggie

Green_Frog wrote on Sep 4^th, 2017 at 3:27pm:


Charlie, 
Since Ruger chambered the #1 for this great old caliber, Hornady is offering brass reasonably again! You can find it for around $30 for 20 at several places.