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rustyrelx
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Lady's rifle
Jun 5th, 2016 at 3:22pm
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  I picked up a couple of rifles the other day, both of Stevens manufacture. Both tip up's. The Lady's rifle is so small and tiny its unmistakeable a Lady's or small bot rifle. I looked it up in Grants book and says its a Lady/s rifle. It has been made into a 25-20ss.

  I wondering just how rare is a #14 rifle.

The other rifle is a #8 and relined in 32-20 wcf with a vintage scope.

I know the tip up's are not the most "favorite" rifle but in their way are quite cute and clunky. Cute and clunky fasinates me.
  Don
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #1 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 4:03pm
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I, too, always had a yen for a high-grade tip-up...until I got the opportunity of shooting one: a virtually mint #7 in 22LR with the equivalent of a #3 brl.   That barrel, 28" I believe, was the thing that queered any further interest in owning one--it was so heavy that opening & closing the action very quickly became annoying.  Maybe further shooting would have accustomed me to the handling of it, and diminished the annoyance, but in order for that to happen I was going to have to buy the gun--priced about $1000 20 yrs ago.  But with a lighter barrel, and at a more reasonable price, I'd probably have bought the thing.  

PS--What's the vintage scope?  During the tip-up era, Stevens offered both Malcolm & Cummins scopes in their catalog.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2016 at 4:10pm by Redsetter »  
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rustyrelx
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #2 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 6:41pm
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It has a Caroline scope. The #14 weighs 4.3 lbs.
  
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #3 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 8:13pm
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A 4.3 lb break-action I could handle.  (But I can't shoot anything lacking a forearm!)

A Carolyn scope could be considered "vintage" (out of production by WW II), but I thought it might be one closer in period to tip-up production--Stevens was way ahead of its major competitors in "optics-awareness."

Carolyn also manufactured that brass-tube scope sold by Winchester in the mid-'30s (though telling that to the average Winchester collector is a waste of breath.)
  
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coljimmy
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #4 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 8:41pm
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Apparently when Winchester sold their scope business to Stevens, they had no internally produced scopes to sell with their rifles, a no compete clause???  They probably then bought scopes from other suppliers to go with their 75's 52's etc. Tell me if I am wrong.
I picked up a three quarter inch scope, tinned, and marked only with "8X" with a busted crosshair and fixed it with a hair out of my bathroom comb, some varnish, and super glue.   A friend got tired of owning a Caroline scope, so now I have two.   I have seen these two types mounted on various Winchesters offered for sale.
Does anyone know what other scopes Winchester marketed with their rifles?
James
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #5 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 9:49pm
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The Winchester 8X was specifically made for the Winchester 75 .22 Target rifle. Someone else may know more about the rest of them. While the tip ups are not as desirable as the 44 and 44 1/2's, they are interesting rifles for their time. Anyone can shoot one without a forearm. You may not like it, but you can shoot it. The higher priced models had a forearm. I have 3 rimfires and would like to get a nice one in a centerfire caliber.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2016 at 9:55pm by slumlord44 »  
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Redsetter
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:31pm
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coljimmy wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 8:41pm:
Tell me if I am wrong...
James


Wrong, you are not.  The Carolyn company bit the dust about 1940 (though their scopes were very well reviewed in the Rifleman), but an obscure optical company, Sayman-Brown, continued making them until WW II provided more lucrative war-time contracts.   
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #7 - Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:37pm
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slumlord44 wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 9:49pm:
The Winchester 8X was specifically made for the Winchester 75 .22 Target rifle.


Well, the best source I've found on this point, Watrous' Winchester history, disagrees; he says these scopes were originally planned to be sold with special Model 67s & 68s, though they seem later to have been offered with other models.

Shooting guns without forearms violates my religious beliefs.
« Last Edit: Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:56pm by Redsetter »  
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frnkeore
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #8 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 1:32am
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Redsetter wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 10:37pm:
slumlord44 wrote on Jun 5th, 2016 at 9:49pm:
The Winchester 8X was specifically made for the Winchester 75 .22 Target rifle.


Well, the best source I've found on this point, Watrous' Winchester history, disagrees; he says these scopes were originally planned to be sold with special Model 67s & 68s, though they seem later to have been offered with other models.

Shooting guns without forearms violates my religious beliefs.


My info on the Winchester (Carolyn made) scopes is, that they are made in three powers, 2.5, 5, and 8.

The 2.5 & 5, where available on the model 67 (677) and 69 (dual sight) and maybe others.

The 8X was first available on the Model 75 but, I think it could be bought to mount on a 69.

I near have heard why Winchester didn't put their name on them but, I think that there must have been a reason. I suppose it could have had something to do with a agreement with lyman.

Frank
  

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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #9 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 8:38am
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frnkeore wrote on Jun 6th, 2016 at 1:32am:
My info on the Winchester (Carolyn made) scopes is, that they are made in three powers, 2.5, 5, and 8.

The 2.5 & 5, where available on the model 67 (677) and 69 (dual sight) and maybe others.

The 8X was first available on the Model 75 but, I think it could be bought to mount on a 69.

I near have heard why Winchester didn't put their name on them but, I think that there must have been a reason. I suppose it could have had something to do with a agreement with lyman.

Frank


I should have read Watrous' comments on the 75, which noted that the 8X was listed as an option.  What's odd about this is that 8X is by far the most common power of this model scope--seems to me the lower power scopes sold with the cheaper guns should be most common, but it ain't so.  About the 677 & 697 Watrous says: "had a very small sale due to the unsatisfactory scope mount used," which isn't hard to believe--probably the crudest mounts ever designed.  Since only the mounts were marked with the Winchester name, I wonder if they were supplied by Winchester.  But I've seen a few of these scopes & mounts absolutely UNmarked.
  
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #10 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 8:55am
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frnkeore wrote on Jun 6th, 2016 at 1:32am:
I near have heard why Winchester didn't put their name on them but, I think that there must have been a reason. I suppose it could have had something to do with a agreement with lyman.

Frank


Both companies certainly "got along," because after A5 production ceased, Winchester promptly began supplying 5As on special-order 52s, and probably on other models if requested.  The Carolyn-made scopes seem to have been regarded as "economy-models" unsuitable for Winchester's better rifles.   
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #11 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 4:12pm
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Here's my Tip Up Lady's Rifle, in .25-20 Stevens:

  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #12 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 4:14pm
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And here's the only Carolyn Optical Company scope sight I've ever seen in the wild.  Looks nothing like what they sold to Winchester.

  
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frnkeore
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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #13 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 4:27pm
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Carolyn made two scope of their own design. These are pictures of the other one. 

This design had a second ocular cell so, that you could have both 4X & 8X. they had advanced features so, I'm not sure why they didn't have a very long run. They used Marlin (Wallensak) mounts.

Frank
  

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Re: Lady's rifle
Reply #14 - Jun 6th, 2016 at 4:40pm
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Bent_Ramrod wrote on Jun 6th, 2016 at 4:14pm:
And here's the only Carolyn Optical Company scope sight I've ever seen in the wild.  Looks nothing like what they sold to Winchester.



Love that "coffin-shaped" box!  Really makes it look like a deluxe model, though it's the same, except for the dual eyepieces, as the other one.
  
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