Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Over Primer Wads (Read 16083 times)
4570mike
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 460
Location: On the Peninsula
Joined: Apr 11th, 2013
Over Primer Wads
Jun 3rd, 2016 at 5:55pm
Print Post  
I have been reloading for years, but just started cast bullet cartridges about two years ago.  I was advised to use a news paper wad (single thickness) over the primer.  I have done this religiously.  I'm loading 45-70, 40-65 and 38-55.  I have had very good accuracy results.  My question is what is the advantage with the over-primer news paper wad? I recall somewhere where it was stated that the primer flash is assisted by the wad, but I find it suspicious that a thin piece on news print would have any affect on the function of the primer.  Maybe it just keeps powder grains from migrating through the flash hole?
Any body have any technical reasoning on this?
Mike.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18055
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #1 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 6:27pm
Print Post  
I'm not a BP shooter, but have done some reading on it, and found some very good shooters use over primer wads. But also found some good shooters who don't too. 
Here's a read I found long ago and saved, which explains why. Whether you do it or not is an individual choice:
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rgchristensen
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1188
Joined: Jan 2nd, 2014
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #2 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 7:12pm
Print Post  
    I have done some experiments with this, using variously thick over-primer wads, including even light gauge aluminum, and didn't see any differences, so long as the round fired at all.  No significant differences in mean velocity, velocity SD.
    If it makes you feel good, do it.   Doubt it can make any difference. I haven't seen any reports of meaningful trials.   Some good shooters use over-primer wads.......

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MT Chambers
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 141
Location: Foam Lake, Saskatchewan
Joined: Oct 3rd, 2011
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #3 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 8:13pm
Print Post  
Reduces the primer power so less chance of the charge moving early from just the primer going off.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3973
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #4 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 9:42pm
Print Post  
I don't use black power but if, as I understand it, the case is full, how can the powder charge move before it's burning? I'm confused and need some education about this.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MT Chambers
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 141
Location: Foam Lake, Saskatchewan
Joined: Oct 3rd, 2011
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #5 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 10:36pm
Print Post  
I believe that the idea is that everything could start early(by milliseconds) including the projectile, and were only talking a thou. or two.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3973
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #6 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 10:59pm
Print Post  
Thanks- I never know how it stays so popular with all the fussy loading stuff it takes. Wads, washing cases, compression, weight vs. bulk, etc. I have enough to keep me busy without adding more. Grin
p.s. If moving early is a trouble, why don't we hear smokeless guys worried more about it. Gotta be happening there too, don't ya suppose?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18055
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #7 - Jun 3rd, 2016 at 11:11pm
Print Post  
Some smokeless powders do have similar burn rates to BP, so can end up with the same unburned powder, or dirty bores from the same thing happening. In BP, I understand the issue of the bullet moving out the bore when a hot primer is exposed to the powder, can create a dirtier bore as the bullet moves down the barrel, and at times exits before complete ignition takes place.
I've had some smokeless powders I thought might benefit from shielding the primer, and burn cleaner and more complete. I usually just changed to a faster powder, rather than complicate my loading procedure.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MT Chambers
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 141
Location: Foam Lake, Saskatchewan
Joined: Oct 3rd, 2011
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #8 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 2:37am
Print Post  
I think that maybe smokeless powders won't ignite as easily and could have erratic ignition if the flash is somewhat compromised.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4473
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #9 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 11:22am
Print Post  
At one time both black powder primers and smokeless primers were available. Smokeless requires a higher brisance than black. The overprimer wad is intended to reduce the brisance of current primers back towards the level of the old black powder primers. Some users put the wad (actually usually a thin piece of paper like tracing paper) between the primer and the flash hole and others put the paper inside the case over the flash hole (which also keeps the powder out of the flash hole and may promote more even ignition.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3973
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #10 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 12:10pm
Print Post  
I have, like Vall, experienced dirty bores with slower (relatively) powders in some loads. Upping the charge, or change to faster is my cure. Or, and I shudder here, crimping. 
But, I thought that black burned so rapidly (deflagrate?) that we don't ever catch it's speed with smokeless. Now, I'm confused more because we can't up the charge, or change to quick powder. 
Some even finger seat, so crimping is out there too. See how easy I am to befuddle? I'm not being contrary, just curious.
But, I'd have been among the first of the ODGs to change to the new powder that didn't smoke. Roll Eyes
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7659
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #11 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 1:36pm
Print Post  
The ODG's where pretty smart, as soon a smokeless came along, they added some to the old, black, dirty stuff that they had been using. 

There didn't seem to be any "rules" about shooting those steel Buffalo's at that time and I'm pretty sure that they would have used duplex in long range matches too, if there had been any at that time and I know they would have used the 1878 Borchardt. 

Anyone that used it after the start of the 20th century, used it because it was cheap. It's NOT cheap any more, it cost much more in both, time and money to shoot it now.

That said, I like BP but, only with duplex loads (still much harder to get accuracy) but, the matches go smoother and faster.

I've offen wondered where the Buff Hunters got there news paper for their primers and did they use a hammer for their compression dies?

Sorry, kinda OT, I know Sad ( Smiley )

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
.22-5-40
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 828
Joined: Feb 13th, 2010
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #12 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 1:59pm
Print Post  
I've been using tissue paper wads under the primer for most of my rifle loads..both black & smokeless.  Did a little informal test a year ago in a Shilen barreled Borchardt Hornet using various thickness of wads..& no wad..the wadded loads were more accurate than those without..but not by much!  I did notice a drop off in accuracy if too thick of a paper were used.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 18055
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #13 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 5:16pm
Print Post  
The old Ideal #6 duplex powder measure came out shortly after smokeless powders hit the market. I'm sure the shooters back then needed a duplex measure, or Ideal wouldn't have made them.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Over Primer Wads
Reply #14 - Jun 4th, 2016 at 6:07pm
Print Post  
oneatatime wrote on Jun 4th, 2016 at 11:22am:

... (which also keeps the powder out of the flash hole and may promote more even ignition.)

Those pesky super-fine ball powder grains that sneak through the flask hole to rest between the primer anvil legs...     Wink
  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint