ASSRA Forum › General › Reloading the Single Shot Rifle › Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
(Moderator Group: Moderator)
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short??? (Read 7210 times)
Shanghai Jack
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 97
Location: texas
Joined: Apr 6th, 2014
Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
May 30th, 2016 at 7:20pm
Print Post  
I picked up a Martini really cheap probably because it's a really strange cartridge.  I did a chamber cast and its a rimmed 25 caliber based on a necked down 30-40 Krag Jorgenson.  The closest I can come to it in my references is a .25 Krag short listed in the Handloader's Guide to Cartridge Conversions but this one has a case length of only 2.00 inches as opposed to a case length of 2.3 inches for the book version.  Obviously the shoulder has been bumped back significantly as well.  The book also states that there are more  than one variation of the 25 Krag Short.   The seller is looking for a set of his father's dies for the rifle, but while I'm puzzling about how to form the brass is there anyone out there who has any experience with this cartridge or who would recommend a starting load.  Don't even know the case capacity yet since I' ve not tried forming any brass yet.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Marlene
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 276
Joined: Oct 30th, 2015
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #1 - May 31st, 2016 at 1:17am
Print Post  
sounds close to 250 Savage with a rim?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shanghai Jack
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 97
Location: texas
Joined: Apr 6th, 2014
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #2 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:24am
Print Post  
Yes, the 250-3000 looks close with the exception of the rim as you noted.  The trim to length is close.  Length to shoulder is only about a tenth off as well and that could be adjusted.  Shoulder length and angle are significantly different though but I guess that would be taken care of by fire-forming.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7728
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #3 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:50am
Print Post  
I form my 25 Krag with standard dies from CH4D, set to size the neck only.  They could bump the shoulder, I just don't need to.   308 is not far off 30/40 shape. 

7mm08, 260 Remington, 25/08.  Then use one of CH"s next sizers for final and all loading after fire forming. Shoulder takes care of itself on fire forming . Yours is shorter and the stock dies may need cutting off from the bottom.  Dave has done that for me in other calibers  for small extra charge.

Mail a chamber cast to Dave at CH he will set you up .

Boats.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4473
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #4 - May 31st, 2016 at 11:19am
Print Post  
I had, or may still have somewhere, a box of 20 cases marked 25 short Krag or else it was marked 25 Krag and the cases were short. Been a long time since I've seen them. I may know where to look...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7728
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #5 - May 31st, 2016 at 1:17pm
Print Post  
If I sift through my shelves have a fair amount of data on the various 25 Krag's in articles and books, will see what I can find for the short Krag. Might take a few days. Going out of town early tomorrow back on Friday

Will scan and send to you if I can, PM me with your email address, 

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Marlene
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 276
Joined: Oct 30th, 2015
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #6 - May 31st, 2016 at 1:34pm
Print Post  
Shanghai Jack wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 6:24am:
Yes, the 250-3000 looks close with the exception of the rim as you noted.  The trim to length is close.  Length to shoulder is only about a tenth off as well and that could be adjusted.  Shoulder length and angle are significantly different though but I guess that would be taken care of by fire-forming. 


I meant more for starting data than case forming. If you feel like you need an intermediate forming die from Krag to your short .25 cartridge, I'd bet a .308 Winchester die would be about perfect.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7728
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #7 - May 31st, 2016 at 3:05pm
Print Post  
I found it best to go through a 7mm die before dropping to .25.  Could be my  brass or the fact I already had a 7mm08 die no reason not to use it, could save hard to find brass.

Had a quick look at my bookshelf, Ackley claimed the 25 Short as one of his cartridges and has some data. No way I would use Ackley data except as a point of reference for too hot!!

Rest of information I may have is in old Handloader magazines. Not indexed so could take some time.

If I was loading that cartridge would get it's case volume then look for modest data for other 25's like 25/35 250/3000 & 257 Roberts. Match up case capacity with one of the known cartridges and start on the very low side working up. Guessing only 25/35 data would be a good safe start

Ackley claimed it could be loaded to slightly higher velocity than 257 Roberts improved. That's a right fast cartridge.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Marlene
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 276
Joined: Oct 30th, 2015
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #8 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:07pm
Print Post  
boats wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 3:05pm:
No way I would use Ackley data except as a point of reference for too hot!!


I chuckled
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shanghai Jack
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 97
Location: texas
Joined: Apr 6th, 2014
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #9 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:53pm
Print Post  
Thanks all - contacted Dave today. He seemed interested in the cartridge.  Shipping a chamber cast to him tomorrow.

Read the Ackley reference.  Case is significantly shorter. 

Sounds like the 7mm and the 308 dies make sense.  

Thanks for all the info.  Will get some pics when I get something working on the brass side. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shanghai Jack
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 97
Location: texas
Joined: Apr 6th, 2014
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #10 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:57pm
Print Post  
Marlene wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 1:34pm:
Shanghai Jack wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 6:24am:
Yes, the 250-3000 looks close with the exception of the rim as you noted.  The trim to length is close.  Length to shoulder is only about a tenth off as well and that could be adjusted.  Shoulder length and angle are significantly different though but I guess that would be taken care of by fire-forming. 


I meant more for starting data than case forming. If you feel like you need an intermediate forming die from Krag to your short .25 cartridge, I'd bet a .308 Winchester die would be about perfect.


Got you, I was just comparing the general dimensions of the 250/3000.  The dimensions of my chamber cast are actually closer to the 250/3000 than they are to the Krag Short listed in the cartridge conversion guide. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shanghai Jack
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 97
Location: texas
Joined: Apr 6th, 2014
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #11 - May 31st, 2016 at 6:59pm
Print Post  
oneatatime wrote on May 31st, 2016 at 11:19am:
I had, or may still have somewhere, a box of 20 cases marked 25 short Krag or else it was marked 25 Krag and the cases were short. Been a long time since I've seen them. I may know where to look...


Be interesting in seeing one
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dave_j
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 258
Location: Nevada desert
Joined: Jul 12th, 2005
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #12 - Jun 1st, 2016 at 3:00am
Print Post  
sounds like a version of a short krag cartridge similar to the Pfeifer series    i have experience with a 22 Pfeifer krag back about 1971. too many split cases.    at the time i was told there were several calibers based on the 2" case .
best of the bunch imho was the 6mm
good luck!
  
ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Shanghai Jack
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 97
Location: texas
Joined: Apr 6th, 2014
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #13 - Jun 1st, 2016 at 6:37am
Print Post  
Very interesting - don't see a lot on line about the Pfeifer series. Does give me another thing to start researching.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oneatatime
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4473
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: Oct 30th, 2011
Re: Need some Help - 25 Krag Super Short???
Reply #14 - Jun 7th, 2016 at 9:09pm
Print Post  
I found the brass in the box marked 25 Short Krag but it measures about 2.16 so in between 25 Krag and 25 Super Short;-)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›
 
  « Board Index ‹ Board Top  

ASSRA Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.

Valid RSS Valid XHTML Valid CSS Powered by Perl Source Forge

Page completed in 0.7358 seconds.