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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45 (Read 9780 times)
Jruby38
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Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
May 14th, 2016 at 6:10pm
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I have an original Trapdoor 45 70. Been using LEE 405g with 20G of 2400. Shoots just ok, seems a little better when  bullet is unsized. One old timer from my club said to never use smokeless powder only black, and another told me to use toilet paper as a filler. It is fun to shoot a 150 year old assault rifle that was make 40 miles from house in Mass. FYI if in the Springfield Mass area check out the armory national museum. See new unissued muskets, trapdoors, 03's and M1's.
  
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MT Chambers
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #1 - May 14th, 2016 at 6:52pm
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Lyman and others show many smokeless loads for the Trapdoor in their special trapdoor loads section. I wouldn't do it opting instead for real black powder, which is what the rifle was designed for.
  
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sharps
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #2 - May 14th, 2016 at 7:50pm
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I stick w/black in my trapdoors, that way I know its not a hot load, a good book on the subject was written by pat and spencer wolfe, on reloading for the trapdoor. imo it also is just great historical reading, the title is 'reloading cartridges for the original 45/70 trapdoor springfield rifle and carbine'  have fun
  
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Joe_S
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #3 - May 15th, 2016 at 7:46am
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I have been shooting smokeless exclusively in my trapdoors for about 35 years. I make it a point to stick to published data and keep the velocities down to black powder equivalents or lower. My standard loads are 22 gr 4759 with a 500 gr bullet, 23 gr 4759 with a 405-440 gr bullet, and 23gr Accurate.  Arms 5744 with a 405-440 gr bullet. I have also used 19.5 gr of 4759 for a light load which is accurate and pleasant to shoot, but not quite as accurate as the faster loads. 
I keep saying I want to shoot some black powder, but never have the time. Good luck! Joe S
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #4 - May 15th, 2016 at 9:06am
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All of the loads Joe S put in will work in a trapdoor. The one fly in the ointment is 4759 is no longer made What ever Joe has left is all he is going to get. The 5744 load looks good or I would look for a load in 4227. Stay away from toiled paper or any other type of wadding. It will lead to chamber ringing and in some cases increased pressures, something you don’t need in a trapdoor. If spilling power is an issue just put a cork or felt wag at the case mouth. 
I saw a guy use toilet paper with blue dot in a 577-450. We all had a good laugh as the toilet paper blew about 25 yards in a ball of flame and lay on the grass burning. 

40 Rod
  
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John Boy
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #5 - May 15th, 2016 at 11:40am
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Marksman Recipes from the Loading Bench -at the bottom of the website:
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Jruby38
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #6 - May 15th, 2016 at 2:29pm
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I tried black powder once. It makes a mess of the cases and accuracy was bad.  I'am having a hard time finding 2400 powder, but I like the way it meters on my Dillon. Do I need any fillers with ACCURATE 5744 and does it meter in a progressive.
  
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coljimmy
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #7 - May 15th, 2016 at 3:16pm
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The old tried and true load in this area is 24 grains of 2400 with malt-o-meal filler behind 405 grains of lead.  The cheap 459 hollow base Lee mold works better for me.  Be careful and visually inspect after powder for double charging with smokeless before adding filler!!!!!

James
  
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Joe_S
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #8 - May 15th, 2016 at 6:52pm
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I use one sheet of single ply toilet paper as a wad. Wrap it around a dowel, insert the dowel with the paper on the end into the case, when you pull the case out, the paper stays in. never had it catch fire on the ground, but cannot say it will never happen. Cannot guarantee that it will not ring a barrel either, so do so at your own risk. YMMV as they say. 5744 burns a little dirty, like 4759, leaves lots of unburned powder, but don't worry about it. I am sure there are other powders out there that will work, but 4749 and 5744 are what I use. Joe S
  
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Antonio
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #9 - May 15th, 2016 at 9:07pm
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I have never used "fillers" in any smokeless loads. trapdoor loads and pressures for different smokeless powders are listed usually by the powder manufacturers. Trapdoors need minimum pressures to prevent problems. I have shot 405 grn without a problem. Black is  uch more fun though.  Gunner'
  
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Joe_S
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #10 - May 16th, 2016 at 4:58pm
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CORRECTION: I am NOT advocating the use of wads or fillers, but I do want to correct my previous post.  I use 1/4 sheet of single ply toilet paper as a wad in my smokeless 45-70 loads, not one full sheet. I am not suggesting or recommending that anyone else do it. Not sure why I even mentioned it. Joe S
  
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Antonio
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #11 - May 16th, 2016 at 8:59pm
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Joe, sorry for the implication, did not mean anything by it. I just have not heard of using that for a wad. I do not use wads on smokeless, maybe I will give it a try. We can always learn something new everyday.  Thanks  gunner'
  
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #12 - May 16th, 2016 at 9:32pm
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Antonio wrote on May 16th, 2016 at 8:59pm:
Joe, sorry for the implication, did not mean anything by it. I just have not heard of using that for a wad. I do not use wads on smokeless, maybe I will give it a try. We can always learn something new everyday.  Thanks  gunner'



Wads are for those that shoot black powder, don't make the mistake, a big mistake, of shooting smokeless powder with a wad or any other obstruction.
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #13 - May 17th, 2016 at 8:51am
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The use of wads with smokeless powder is, possibly, the most misunderstood component of reloading today. Some say I never harmed or rung my barrel then there are the horror stories like the idiot who blew up a stainless steel Sharps copy. The action stayed together but the barrel couldn’t contain the stress anymore and grenaded. 
Charlie Dell proved how ringing happens and it has little to wad it’s self and everything to do with the placement. There are some wad materials that can contribute to the problem such as Dacron and of coarse you can overpower any steel by overcharging. But by far the main cause of ringing and eventually failure is wad placement.
     Most shooters fixate on the wad or the material the problem occurs when the powder is held tight against the base of the case and the resulting explosion becomes a plug of pressure that travels up the chamber and meets the bullet base. The resistance of the bullet to start moving causes a pressure spike. Think of a shaped charge. If the powder has sufficient force a ring will be formed in the metal. Most rings are formed a tiny bit at a time until they become visible. Leaving the wad .050” to .100” off the powder will allow the powder to slump inside the case and change the way the pressure flows up the chamber. 

40 Rod
  
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RustyNut
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Re: Reloading smokeless powder in original trapdoor 45
Reply #14 - May 29th, 2016 at 10:15am
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I've shot a lot of Black Powder but didn't want to use it in my Trapdoors. So instead I was using 5744 but not getting a complete powder burn. So I switched over to Trailboss. It works great for me in .45-70 & .50-70.
  
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