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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tang sight MOA's ? (Read 14989 times)
cuslog
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Tang sight MOA's ?
May 9th, 2016 at 4:05pm
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So, I see guys talking about moving up or down MOA's on Tang sights. I THINK I understand what one MOA (Minute of Angle ?) at the target is but when guys are talking MOA on a Tang sight, doesn't it (amount of sight movement required to move POI by one MOA) vary with bullet weight and velocity ?
I assume its just a rough approximation ?
Second question;
Typical hash mark spacing on a Tang sight -- is there a standard hash mark spacing and if so, what is it ?
I've made my own Tang sight and put down hash marks representing one full revolution of the screw but had no thought (until recently) as to MOA markings on the sight staff.

Thanks,

  
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jy3855
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #1 - May 9th, 2016 at 5:17pm
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We approximate a minute of angle to be 1 inch at 100 yards.  The true figure is extremely close to that amount.

On MVA tang sights, the graduated scale has 20 graduations per inch, so each graduation is .05". Each graduation counts for 5 "MOA" when you use the vernier, but the term MOA is used loosely.  How much the POI changes with 1 "MOA" on the vernier scale depends on the sight radius, and works out to an inch at 100 yds for a sight radius of 1 yard or 36".

For sight radii of different lengths, the amount of POI movement in inches for .01" movement of the rear aperture would be equal to 36 divided by the sight radius in inches.  For example for a 24" sight radius, move the rear sight .01" (1 nominal "MOA" of the scale) and the POI will move 36/24" or 1.5 inches.

On my High Wall 32-40 with a 30" barrel, sight radius with my MVA tang sight is about 33 1/4" at a setting of 10 (changes with slider position on the staff - about 33 3/8" at 260).

And yes, how many "MOA"s of movement of the rear sight is needed between, say, 100 and 200 yards (or other change in target distance) is dependent on the load performance (bullet speed, BC, etc) and has to be determined by actually firing at those distances and comparing the sight settings.
« Last Edit: May 9th, 2016 at 5:35pm by jy3855 »  
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CajunRebel
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #2 - May 9th, 2016 at 6:33pm
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If I may add, the windage divisions on my tang sight is .02".
  
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jy3855
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #3 - May 9th, 2016 at 7:51pm
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Excellent point, CajunRebel.  Oversight on my part to point out that I was talking about the vertical or elevation scale.  On my MVA tang sight, the small windage graduations are .02" so 2 "MOA" each.  My windage sliders on the MVA sights with windage on the assembly with the eye cup do not have a Vernier scale, but simply a single line opposite the windage scale that has 20 graduations.
  
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cuslog
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #4 - May 9th, 2016 at 9:58pm
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I did mine a little "different".
Built my own from scratch -- from plans available from ASSRA.
The mid-range "Soule". I deviated from the plans a little, in that the plans called for 1/4 - 40 "lead screws" and I (being the cheap old Scotchman that I am) used #10 - 32 because that is what I had "in hand". Made hash marks every .031" (one for each revolution of the screw). Also did a 10 division Vernier scale on the slider portion of the staff and the windage thumb screw has 30 divisions on that.
So, completely un-conventional  Roll Eyes But I think it should get me to the same place, just a bit different spacing in the "steps".
  
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boats
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #5 - May 10th, 2016 at 10:02am
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Two ways to figure yours. Calculation or prove it on paper.

Zero close for a small point of impact group, 25 yards. lot of shots then find center of impact with a framing square. Box in the holes then X through the corners for center. Don't count wild shots. Use the "normal group" only.

Then move the sight a lot. 10 graduations, shoot another group on the same target. Do the same thing box them in then X

Measure the distance between first and second groups center of impact, divide by 10 and you will find impact movement per graduation. Expand the 25 yards to 100 by multiplying x 4 and you have sight movement in per graduation.

In practice I do it by calculation or the Handy little Chart Lyman provides with sights. Then at the range prove the calculation by using the shoot and measure method. Only taking a few shots to confirm I calculated properly.  

I can scan the chart and send it to you if you like

Boats
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2016 at 10:26am by boats »  
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cuslog
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #6 - May 10th, 2016 at 11:04am
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Boats;
Yes, I'd like to have a copy of the Lyman chart.
cuslog@telus.net

Thanks
  
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boats
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #7 - May 10th, 2016 at 1:52pm
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Will scan it this afternoon and send it.

Boats
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #8 - May 10th, 2016 at 4:47pm
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It is a simple matter to calculate the exact MOA for your rifle.  Send your sight radius and the amount of vertical or horizontal movement of a graduation and/or a movement of made by one revolution of your knob and I will do it.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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boats
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #9 - May 10th, 2016 at 6:28pm
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Chart is out to you via Email

Formula goes like this

Measure your sight radius then divide it by 3600 (number of inches in 100 yards). Measure your graduation spacing.  Multiply first result by the second.  Result is bullet movement one graduation at 100 yards.

Couple of ways to improve accuracy of result. One is measure 10 graduations & divide by 10 to get value of one.  And I prove on paper after calculation. Click sights I use a dial indicator to measure movement & value of a knob turn.  Indicates any backlash in the screw. Takes a good click sight to have minimal backlash.  Vernier sight much more accurate.

Boats
  
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IOwnDoubles
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #10 - May 11th, 2016 at 11:44pm
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How or where can I get a plans for tang sights as you describe for AASRA
Jerry
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #11 - May 12th, 2016 at 12:37pm
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Boats, something doesn't seem quite right with that. For example with 30 inch spacing 30/3600=.00833. The graduation is going to be only a few thousandths so the movement at 100 is going to be impossibly small. Maybe divide the spacing result by graduation result instead of multiplying?
« Last Edit: May 12th, 2016 at 12:43pm by oneatatime »  
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CajunRebel
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #12 - May 12th, 2016 at 1:34pm
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If I am correct...

Staff Division (MOA) = 100yds(in) / Sight Radius(in) * Staff Division(in)

(3600/30.375)*.05=5.296  MOA

More from my notes:

FORMULA TO CONVERT BULLET DROP TO SIGHT MOVEMENT IN INCHES
M=S*D/(Rin)   Sight Movement=Sight Radius*Distance to Move Bullet (Bullet Drop) / Range(in)

SLIGHTLY MODIFIED SIGHT MOVEMENT FORMULA FOR MOA ADJUSTMENT
MOA=Sight Radius(in)*Bullet Drop(in)/Range(in)*-100
MOA=1.047197536 inches at 100 yards.

« Last Edit: May 12th, 2016 at 1:41pm by CajunRebel »  
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cuslog
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #13 - May 12th, 2016 at 1:52pm
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IOwnDoubles wrote on May 11th, 2016 at 11:44pm:
How or where can I get a plans for tang sights as you describe for AASRA
Jerry


(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Click on the link, look under "Other Services".
  
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cuslog
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Re: Tang sight MOA's ?
Reply #14 - May 12th, 2016 at 2:03pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on May 10th, 2016 at 4:47pm:
It is a simple matter to calculate the exact MOA for your rifle.  Send your sight radius and the amount of vertical or horizontal movement of a graduation and/or a movement of made by one revolution of your knob and I will do it.


Sight radius is 31", TPI of both screws is 32 or .03125" per revolution. Math / Geometry / Trig is not my strong suit and I don't think I have room for anymore markings or stamps small enough if I did. Interesting to "know" the numbers though.
Thanks,
Howard
  
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