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dave_j
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primers
Apr 28th, 2016 at 9:12pm
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a little problem i need input for     i have a 32 miller short chambered rifle. using 12 grains of 4227 and a federal small rifle primer causes the primers to virtually fall out after firing   i checked other small rifle primers and they are all .o175 diameter   i used fed 357 mag cases and the pockets are fairly uniform   help Cry
  

ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
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westerner
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Re: primers
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2016 at 10:39pm
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To much pressure? Back off on the powder charge? Ten grains?  Undecided

Bullet weight? BS or fixed??


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beltfed
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Re: primers
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2016 at 11:46pm
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soft Fed brass.
beltfed/arnie
  
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dave_j
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Re: primers
Reply #3 - Apr 29th, 2016 at 1:13am
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thanks for the replies  that high pressure was my first thought, the darn things shoot really good too. i am in the process of making some cases from starline brass and some maximum brass then i will back off the grains and see what happens. this is my first experience with soft(?) fed brass. usually fed is pretty good  thanks again !
  

ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: primers
Reply #4 - Apr 29th, 2016 at 3:18am
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Are you getting sticky extraction?  Cratered primers?
  

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bnice
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Re: primers
Reply #5 - Apr 29th, 2016 at 8:31am
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Starline also makes .360 dan Wesson cases. They appear to have a thicker web
  
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beltfed
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Re: primers
Reply #6 - Apr 29th, 2016 at 8:47am
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To explain further re. my comment on "soft Fed brass"
My experience relates to 308 and 223 brass experiencing
similar signs of pressure, as compared to WW or Rem cases.
We did not reload fired Fed 223 cases picked up at Perry for this reason. 
I imagine using your Fed 357max cases would be ok with reduced loads, tho.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: primers
Reply #7 - Apr 29th, 2016 at 9:45am
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I am shooting my 32-30 IMP not a Miller short but my study on the .357 based cases is that there is very little difference between any of them. 
  My experience with Remington .357 Max brass is that it needs to be lightly annealed to form properly. I would rough trim the cases then put them in water leaving about .300” out of the water. Lightly run the torch over the case necks and tip them over into the water. This will keep the heat from traveling down into the web and base.
  Second a powder change may be in order shooters are getting better results with 4100/Enforcer or #9 than 4227 with .357 based cases.
  Third you don’t mention what the twist of the barrel or the weight of the bullet is. I started off using a 230 gr. Borton bullet I also tried a 230 gr. Jones mold both gave me accuracy but I was getting case sticking after five shots or so. I went to David Mos and had a 216 gr. bullet made to fit my throating. The shorter bullet let me back off on the powder a little and still get optimum performance. I can now shoot all day with one case. 
  Lastly get yourself some 5.6 X 50R Magnum brass. The RWS is hideously expensive but it is just plain better brass. You can form it fully without annealing and I haven’t lost a case in three years.

40 Rod   
  
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Re: primers
Reply #8 - Apr 29th, 2016 at 5:43pm
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thank you all for the info     The Modern Schuetzen Rifle lists 14.5 gr of 4227 so that is what i was using as a reference   my bad
  

ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
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uscra112
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Re: primers
Reply #9 - Apr 30th, 2016 at 4:42am
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Shooting plain base bullets, I find it hard to believe that pressures are ever high enough to loosen primer pockets or stick cases.  The pressure required to get a 230 grain bullet to 1450 fps out of a 24 inch barrel is about 25,000 psi, regardless of the case size.  

I have fired dozens of rounds of .357 Max in my T/C, loaded  to just short of 40,000 psi, as do hundreds if not thousands of other guys using the Max for deer.  Nobody has reported any trouble with the brass.   Something does not compute.  

Is it possible that, in forming the Miller case, the brass was too much annealed?  

Can somebody tell me what the case capacity (preferably in grains of water) is for the Miller?   I'd like to run some models in Quickload. 
« Last Edit: Apr 30th, 2016 at 4:50am by uscra112 »  

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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: primers
Reply #10 - Apr 30th, 2016 at 8:27am
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  The Miller short is very close to the capacity of a 32-20 WCF.
  

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uscra112
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Re: primers
Reply #11 - Apr 30th, 2016 at 9:33am
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That makes it easy.  Thanks.

The 12 grains of 4227, 230 grain bullet breech seated, should yield about 20,000 psi and 1300 fps from a 24" barrel.

Raising that charge to 14.7 grains runs the pressure up to around 31.5k psi, and 1550 feet per second.   

Hope that helps.
  

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Re: primers
Reply #12 - Apr 30th, 2016 at 7:30pm
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Ck the head space------------ Cheesy
  
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dave_j
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Re: primers
Reply #13 - Apr 30th, 2016 at 8:28pm
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headspace is fine. i formed 20 new max cases to 32 miller and the primers went in very firmly. the primer pockets are a trifle smaller than the federal cases. have not shot them yet    i did not know about the quickload and how to use it but that looks like a good tool    thanks again
  

ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
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