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JLouis
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Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Apr 23rd, 2016 at 5:48pm
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What happened to this group this site is short on 28 Caliber information. Haven't seen much of anything posted in a couple of years now or since it was formed for that matter. Not even from the originator who worked so hard to setup up this traditional only group? If memory serves me right Tenex was the last or possibly the only who posted any information and I beleave he was shooting a 28-30.

Outside of the traditional rules established for that group, I have been using a 28 in competition for a couple of years now but being a non-traditional cartridge I wasn't allowed to provide any input
so here is what I am currently using. 
If anyone else out there is shooting a 28 traditional or otherwise that might have some positive information to share with this group please post it!
I am using a traditional style rifle that I built around a FBW's Model J non traditional action.
Douglas 12 Twist
The case is the 25-35 blown out to 28 and thus called the 28-35SS by those in our group who have also chambered thier rifles with the same chamber reamer of which now makes five of us.
MOS 147gr. Bullet Breech Seated
CCI 200 Primers
JJ 250 Lube
12.0 grs. 300MP 
Darr 154gr. Truncated Bullet Breech Seated
13.0 grs. 300MP
CCI 200 Primers
JJ250 Lube
Both bullets and loads shoot extremely well and the use of wads is not required with this case so none are being used.

This rifle shoots with the best of them when I do my part, the 28's are extremely accurate by nature and very enjoyable to shoot. I am actually quite surprised that very few are being used in competition outside of our group of competitors?

JLouis
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #1 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 9:17pm
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John,
I haven't received any match results to post from qualified equipment, in over 1 or 2 years.

This is the equipment list from the four members with qualifing equipment:


Tradition 28

Equipment and load information:


Name  William (Bill) Schenck      

Rifle/barrel Original  44 ½ / Douglas            Twist    14            Caliber .28/30                                 

Bullet/mold maker Mos               Alloy   20:1   Length 1.026              Weight 144.6

Lube Lithibee                                   Loading method   Breech seated

Powder  IMR4227                         Charge  12.5                        Grs                 Wad  None

Primer/make  Remington                                                Number  7 1/2

Sights:
Iron/make    N/A                             Rear   N/A                             Front N/A

Scope/make              Unertl                                              Power  24

Other information:  Model 49 stock, shot using a bobsled.



Name,  Pete Mink

Rifle/barrel, Stevens 44 ½  Dave Casey           Twist, 14       Caliber, 28/30                              

Bullet/mold maker , 285221/ Lyman   Alloy, 32/1   Length, .802               Weight, 120 

Lube,  SPG                Loading method, Fixed 

Powder, 4227                                 Charge, 10.4            Grs                 Wad, .060 LDPE 

Primer/make,  CCI                                     Number, BR-4 

Sights:

Iron/make                                        Rear                                       Front 

Scope/make            , Unertl                                              Power, 10X

 

Name   Rich Davis

Rifle/barrel   CPA/Douglas                     Twist     12          Caliber28/38/50                              

Bullet/mold maker   Mos              Alloy               Length              Weight 147 gr

Lube   Javelina Schuetzen                        Loading method   BS

Powder  300MP                             Charge  12.4            Grs                 Wad

Primer/make  Federal                                           Number  210M 

Sights:   
Iron/make    JH tube                                  Rear                                       Front

Scope/make              Lyman STS                                      Power  20X


Name   Jerry Hartwig 

Rifle/barrel   CPA/ Douglas          Twist 12                  Caliber  28/30                                    

Bullet/mold maker              Mos     Alloy ?         Length  ?          Weight  152 gr 

Lube   Javelina Schuetzen                        Loading method    BS 

Powder  4227                     Charge  12.4 Grs    Wad   Floral foam/over powder 

Primer/make   Remington                                               Number  2  1/2 

Sights:

Iron/make    JH Tube               Rear                                             Front 

Scope/make              Unertl                                              Power  20X
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
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frnkeore
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #2 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 9:25pm
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I've had to many "irons in the fire" (read rifles) to get my 28 built but, I did buy the new extractor blank for my Ballard and I'm hoping for the end of this year?

Your catridge actually qualifys but, as you know, your action doesn't for the group.

At the time of conseption, there was several that were going to build one but, I guess, like me, haven't got around to it yet.

Keep up the good work Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #3 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 9:27pm
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What is a traditional  28 that is easy to get or make brass for?
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #4 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 9:57pm
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Apr 23rd, 2016 at 9:27pm:
What is a traditional  28 that is easy to get or make brass for?


Bob,
If your interested, I can send you the rules but, basically you can use any case that was available in a BP cartridge and neck it to 28 cal. You can not shorten it though, accept for the 28/30, that because F W Mann made 3 diffent lenghts of 28's on the 28/30 case.

The one that I will build is a necked up 25/20SS but, if you like, you can neck down a 45/120 to 28 cal.

Necked up 25/35's are legal, because that case is basically the 38/50 case.

Frank
  

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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #5 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:12pm
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32-20 should be OK then, eh?
  

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mes
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #6 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:19pm
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Since I can not seem to utilize the search function on this site can anyone post the thread heading as a url for the 28 caliber information previous to this thread.

I have been trying to come up with a load for a 28-30 Stevens in a 44 1/2 action with an original 28-30 barrel.

Accurate 28 caliber mold at 125 grains. Tapered from .285 base to .277 nose
Winchester Large Rifle primer.
UMC 28-30 case
2400 and 4227 powders
My 4227 load probably needs to go up in charge weight.
Thanks
  

Martin Stenback
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JLouis
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #7 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:41pm
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What is even close to being Traditional at all now days? Rifle is Cartridge isn't, cartridge is rifle isn't. He or She is but there always seems to be something deemed not to be. The matches aren't even well recognized when everything is right? 
If you play with the names of the cartridges it could be when it really is not. I shoot a 28-35 not at all traditional but if you call it a 28-38-50 it is when really it still is not and is simply nothing other than what the head stamp already points out a 25-35 blown out to 28. That is why I have no intrest in special groups they play by their own rules as they make them up to fit thier own special agenda.
But in trying to answer your question the only one that stands out to be a true traditional is the 28-30 Stevens but if it isn't chambered in the so called correct traditional action it too would still not qualify in the above mentioned group or in a sanctioned Traditional Class match. So no matter which way one turns outside of what has now become the collectors realm you just can't get there if you simply do not have the the same free flowing funds as a collector and that is way outside of my realm. 
So if it looks like a Traditional, smells like a Traditional, shoots the same as a Traditional it is close enough for this old poor boy and I am not handicaped by having to shoot it in the open non Traditional class with those those who say and are in charge of trying to keep the tradition alive but yet they don't so its kind of a really screwed up mess as I see it.

I Hope that answered your question because now I am really confused of what really is or isn't it?

JLouis
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #8 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:44pm
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mes wrote on Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:19pm:
Since I can not seem to utilize the search function on this site can anyone post the thread heading as a url for the 28 caliber information previous to this thread.

I have been trying to come up with a load for a 28-30 Stevens in a 44 1/2 action with an original 28-30 barrel.

Accurate 28 caliber mold at 125 grains. Tapered from .285 base to .277 nose
Winchester Large Rifle primer.
UMC 28-30 case
2400 and 4227 powders
My 4227 load probably needs to go up in charge weight.
Thanks


This is the orginal thread:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Frank
  

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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #9 - Apr 23rd, 2016 at 10:59pm
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John,
If you re-read the above posted thread, you'll see that it was put together by a number of people not just one person and those people agreed on the rules.

It embodies the same "Traditional" class rifle as both ASSRA & ISSA call "Traditional" rifles. You had a Traditional actioned rifle that qualified but, choose to build yours on a non-traditional action.

It could have had rules that ONLY allowed known 28 caliber cartridges but, in the sprit of "Wildcating" as the "Golden" age guys did in those years, we allow ANY case that had a original BP cartridge loading, to be used but, not shorten, with the exception of the ones Mann used.

The rules are simple and straight forward and not hard to build a rifle to compete.

Bob,
If the 32/20 had a BP loading, it qualifys.

Frank
  

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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #10 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 2:42am
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I am shooting an original Stevens Range Model 47, with a 44 action.  Single trigger, no sets.  #2 barrel, iron sights.

Cases:  UMC originals (large pistol primers), Bertram and RMC.  RMC cases have tiny primer holes, makes them difficult to reload.  They usually stay in their nice plastic box.

Powder:  11.7 grains 4227, cork wad in case mouth.
Bullet:  140 grain Hoch nose pour. 25:1,  Emmerts pan lube.  Breech seated with plugged case.  

Loading is done with an original Ideal tong tool.  An old B&M powder measure is used.

I had used Lyman 287221, but the Hoch is a much better bullet.

I tried increasing the powder charge, but that enlarged the primer pockets in the UMC cases.

This is my 200-yard offhand rifle of choice.
  
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #11 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 3:20am
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Frank, Are there rules beyond BP case and original action? 32-20 with a straight taper OK?
  

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oughtsix
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #12 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 10:10am
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Someday,  I hope to join the fold  with a #2 Rolling block.  I have the rifle, and the  bullet mold and brass.  Just need a .28 sized liner in the  barrel,  someday.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #13 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 11:23am
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Frank it was your idea and their vote and I do not have a problem with that. The problem by making it a per-say elite group is there are not enough members in the group to share more than just a handful of information and no results are being posted for the benefit of others. Nothing from this group has been posted for a couple of years of now. Once they posted their equipment and load data the entire group just seemed to disappear. Being that you are the one that is providing over sight and in charge of posting the results maybe the time has come to open it up to anyone using a 28 to help keep it alive. Your statement In regards to my building a rifle that would have meet the rules of which I simply could not afford would be like me stating you started a group you have not and still don't even participate in yet you are the person in charge of providing the oversight. I am not trying to be rude so please don't take this as such but by your lack of participation their seems to be no incentive to keep the group you established alive and well and thus the lack of valuable information for those interested in the 28's for simply pleasure and or competitive use.
The current group of those using a traditional 28 is just to small to keep the rules as they are in order to keep the valuable information that needs to be shared flowing.

Just my opinion and something to think about as there is very little load data published for one to turn to and it would be nice if one could come here to fulfill that need. Back in 70's the 28-3030 was quite popular and it would be nice to see some of those coming out of the closet as well as others.

Please do not take anything I shared as a personal attack on you. Being that you are the one in charge of the Traditional 28 group there is simply no one else to share my concerns with.

JLouis
  

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Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only
Reply #14 - Apr 24th, 2016 at 11:33am
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Oughtsix it is a very enjoyable caliber to shoot and extremely accurate and it should bring you years of enjoyment. There was a point in time when it was the top choice for use as a Woodchuck rifle as well as for competitive use. 

JLouis
  

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