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Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only (Read 13447 times)

frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7249 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #30 - Apr 24^th, 2016 at 11:53pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Apr 24^th, 2016 at 7:59pm: 32 Ideal or 30/30 Wesson (357 Max) Frank, The 357 Max can be used to form 32 Ideal or 30/30 Wesson, but 30-30 cannot be used to form 28-35? Bob, The 357 max isn't long enough to make a 32 Ideal. The 30/30 Win case, can be used to form BP case with the same case head. There is also nothing wrong with swaging a case down to another case head (as long as you also turn the rim to the right size), such as making 32/35's from 30/30 Win. Frank

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shovel80 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 896 Location: Sonora,CA Joined: Jun 6^th, 2011	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #31 - Apr 24^th, 2016 at 11:59pm	Print Post
	My guess is that if it started out with the Legal Case...and Just forming it made it longer or shorter....it wouldn't matter! Still made from the proper case....Don't you think? Terry p.S...I don't have a .28....

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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7249 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #32 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 12:59am	Print Post
	shovel80 wrote on Apr 24^th, 2016 at 11:59pm: My guess is that if it started out with the Legal Case...and Just forming it made it longer or shorter....it wouldn't matter! Still made from the proper case....Don't you think? Terry p.S...I don't have a .28.... Yes but, because the rules say that you can't use a shortened case, there has to be a limit on shortness. I think .030 is a reasonable limit and I don't think anyone would say anything about, even 1/16' short. As for being to long, the chamber limits that, mostly. SAMMI uses .020+ for most chambers so, .030 is in line with that maximum. Frank

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #33 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 2:41am	Print Post
	Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought it was said 30-30 could not be used. Its dimensions are the same as 25-35 so no mods should be required other than possibly trimming after the squeeze down. 30-30 was based on 38-55 or 32-40, but they are longer. So, if you used one of those, would they have to be left full length or trimmed to 30-30/25-35 length? Anybody make a reamer 28-35 and a from die or is this a custom show all the way?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7249 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #34 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 3:19am	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Apr 25^th, 2016 at 2:41am: Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought it was said 30-30 could not be used. Its dimensions are the same as 25-35 so no mods should be required other than possibly trimming after the squeeze down. 30-30 was based on 38-55 or 32-40, but they are longer. So, if you used one of those, would they have to be left full length or trimmed to 30-30/25-35 length? Anybody make a reamer 28-35 and a from die or is this a custom show all the way? Bob, The head stamp will make no difference, only the case dimension have to match a BP cartridge. You could use a 32/40, full length or trimed back to the 38/50 Ballard case length. You could chamber a 28, using a 25/35 reamer and then, run a 28 cal neck & throater to make it a 28/35 or what I like to call a 28-38/50 I had a reamer made for the 25/20ss brass, just a straight taper to 28 cal. It was the first 28, ever made. F J Rabbeth necked the 32 Wesson XL to 28 cal, before he necked it to 25, creating the 25/20SS. Frank

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don1885 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 386 Location: East Tennessee Joined: Oct 31^st, 2010	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #35 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 8:10am	Print Post
	Frank, what are the nominal lengths (dimensions) you would use for judging acceptable cartridges based on the 25-35 and the 38-50 cases? Or any other case formed from the 30/30 case.

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Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 779 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #36 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 8:55am	Print Post
	Pics again of my 28-30 formed from 25-35, or 30-30 then cut down 1.970 OAL . this little gun has done some nice groups over the years and won some matches BR. Lent to a shooting buddy for CBA Match I put on two weeks ago, came in first on one 10 shot match 100 yds 1.460, Barreled by Verl Sigman , Joe Weist sold me the gun before he passed on from cancer. Pete

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #37 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 9:29am	Print Post
	Beautiful Rifle! It is nice to see the new spark of interest in the 28's. JLouis

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #38 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 9:32am	Print Post
	Pete what twist, bullet, powder + grs. used and Primer? JLouis
	« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2016 at 10:44am by JLouis »
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7249 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #39 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 11:47am	Print Post
	don1885 wrote on Apr 25^th, 2016 at 8:10am: Frank, what are the nominal lengths (dimensions) you would use for judging acceptable cartridges based on the 25-35 and the 38-50 cases? Or any other case formed from the 30/30 case. What I believe that I stated in the original thread is that the shooter must provide a published source for the base BP cartridge length. I use a few sources, the first is this one: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) I also use Donnelly's "The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions" and Fred Datig's book, "Cartridges for Collectors" Most list the 38/50 (1876) as 2.00 long. There is a listing for the 38/50 Maynard (1882) with the same case head and 1.97 long. I believe that I have one source that lists the 38/50 Ballard at 1 15/16 also. So, there is a lot of leeway for that one. Frank

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Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 779 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #40 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 12:33pm	Print Post
	28-30 Weist...12 twist, shoots a Paul Jones 175 gr cast 1-16. 12.0 gr IMR 4227, large rifle primed. Also have a 150 gr PJ mold. The 175 tips just a tad , you can see it on paper, but shoots very well. Think a 160 gr would be the sweet bullet for this gun. Bought the gun from Joe, he built it up now almost 30 years ago, built the dies, etc, no reamer with gun. He got it together then set it aside, on to another project. He had a couple case made up. I formed 150 or more and did the load development.

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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #41 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 6:51pm	Print Post
	Pete interesting rifle and cartridge how long is your 175gr. bullet. The gentleman who built your rifle name if very familiar I just can't put my finger on why. A very creative gentleman I would based on his cartridge design and I wouldn't think case lose would an issue at all unlike the Bertram standard 28-30 cases seem to be based on those I know who have used them. Congratulations to your friends CBA success its a tough game to play but one of my favorites. It separates the men from the boys so to speak when it comes to reading conditions, those who can win and those who can't struggle through it. I love the timed format as there is no waiting on a condition to return when breech seating. A couple of sighters and its time to go as the times does get tight if you have to over think where to hold to much. CBA used to be our big monthly event so to speak with a couple of regional events a year / two day matches so we could shoot the group matches as well. Monthly events were score only as it was a real pain to put up the moving backers for group. I just recently cut myself a new mould for my 28, 6 diameter ogive spitzer and at 165 grains it also tips but a bit to much for my liking. It shoots pretty good but I know it could better so I shortened it a tad and I haven't been back out with it yet. Our ISSA Regional is 10 days away so I need to run with what already works as I continue my pre-match practice and I plan to get back to it after the regional. Bullet started at 1.120 long and I new it was going to be a bit much in my 12 twist but I needed to start some where above where I would like to end up.

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Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 779 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #42 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 9:32pm	Print Post
	John...1.270 for 175 gr. 1.00 for 150 grain. Been meaning to use 300MP , will get to it. The last few years medical BS has kept me at bay. Pushing hard to get the Zischang 32 Ideal ready for Spokane. Also my new heavy barreled 25 WCF , the old barrel did real well just to light for OH. Thee first CBA Montana 100 shot Match went over very well. 40 score and 40 group 100/200 then a 20 shot 22RF/25 Quarter Bore. To each his own, but you shoot...dont do well, thats your score! No pay for 2nd's, no offence to anyone. Everyone that shot the Match liked it. Next Match Group but in the X for score..alittle twist there. Did real well with 300MP in my 38-55, more on that later. Works well in the 32 Ideal also..... 28's are cool........Pete
	« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2016 at 8:37am by Skalkaho »
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #43 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 10:10pm	Print Post
	Pete, How do you evaluate and rank a group in the middle for score? String measure?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Skalkaho Oldtimer Offline Posts: 779 Location: Montana Joined: Sep 29^th, 2006	Re: Traditional 28's Traditional Cartridges Only Reply #44 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 8:53am	Print Post
	Bob. ASSRA ans ISSA shoot 10 shots for the X Ring. CBA group is anywhere on the target 5 or 10 shot, just saying go for the X ring for Group...looks nice if you do a perfect score and get best group.

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