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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Paper patching, why? (Read 32828 times)
Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #75 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 12:58am
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 18th, 2016 at 10:58pm:
Rebel wrote on Apr 18th, 2016 at 8:12pm:
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Linky no worky.   But if I cut-and-paste it into the URL command line in my browser, it does.

Bottom line appears to me to be: Modern papers almost all have clay, but this didn't start until synthetic bonding agents became available.  So the old-timers would not have worn their barrels out much, but we will.  



Embarrassed Cry I hate it when that happens  Undecided Cry
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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uscra112
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #76 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:46am
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Just think of it as firelapping.   Smiley
  

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bruce moulds
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #77 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 3:16am
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more than 20,000 shots are reported from barrels using 100+ gns powder and no lube, patched with tracing paper.
these guys are wiping every shot, and this would be more of a wear problem than tracing paper.
most guys would be dead before they fired that many shots.
I used to replace 6.5/284 barrels between 900 and 1200 rounds.
that got a bit boring Cry
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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harry_eales
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #78 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 6:20am
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Bruce,
A great many PP target and hunting rounds had a lube cookie sandwiched between two card discs beneath the bullet that provided a lube coating the barrel so the next bullet fired did have some lubrication. I've taken a good number of original PP cartridges apart over the years both Military and hunting going right back to the Boxer type round that was not drawn brass, but made of rolled brass foil attached to an iron disc base by a hollow rivet that was also the primer pocket. Virtually every one had a lube cookie.

Harry
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #79 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 6:26am
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:46am:
Just think of it as firelapping.   Smiley


The Sharps rifle Company made hundreds of thousands of PP rounds and they used Government Banknote Paper. I doubt if that is available today, as forgers would be printing banknotes faster than the US Government. Grin

Harry
  
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uscra112
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #80 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 6:41am
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Somebody on the forum here managed to score the last of that kind of paper from a papermaker, and sold some of it here.  

I count myself blessed that I bought a quire.  It is kept in an underground vault guarded by six starving Rottweilers.....don't get any ideas.   Grin
  

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beltfed
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #81 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 8:54am
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Clay is added to paper to increase opacity. Also, particularly coated paper like glossy magazines which are calendared,etc.
A transleuscent paper like tracing paper should have a minimum or no clay content.
As suggested, one could contact the mfg to find out. 
beltfed/arnie
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #82 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 10:09am
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Seth Cole 8 lb paper has no sizing and works very well for paper patching.

As far as barrel wear goes, this comes up like clockwork on the Shiloh forum every year Smiley.  It's a non-issue with modern barrels.  Perhaps there was a problem with older barrels, but certainly not with modern stuff like you'll find on a Shiloh for instance.

Chris.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #83 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 3:30pm
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 1:46am:
Just think of it as firelapping.   Smiley


How many Pope barrels need fire lapping?  Roll Eyes

The reason I brought it up was our local ML RB gurus told me back in the 70s that barrels shot out in about 10,000 rounds. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the first rifle I built was a Douglas barrel. That is what the local builders used then. Those should have been modern steel.  Why would pillow ticking and drill wear those barrels.  Are those materials more abrasive than modern paper with a little clay? 
  

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bruce moulds
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #84 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 3:57pm
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some greases have a clay base, and they are lubricants.
re grease wads, yes it was common for certain applications.
hunting ammo was one such use.
the brits used them in express rifle ammo, as well as match rifle ammo, which they shot dirty.
American target ammo, particularly long range, fixed or breech seated, used no grease wads, and was wiped between shots.
more m.l. and b.l. barrels would have been ruined by rods than bullets.
keep safe,
bruce,
  

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #85 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 4:02pm
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Answer is - they won't - but heat erosion will.  A ML doesn't have a case for the powder to burn, it does so directly in the barrel;   And as to the erosiveness of PP, welll - I know for a fact that shooting PP bullets won't even get leading out of a barrel...  Nor any roughness, whatever.   That's how erosive it is.  A ML barrel will wear out at the chamber end - any wear at the muzzle end is rod wear.
  
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #86 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 4:44pm
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Schuetzenmiester, could it be that the muzzleloaders wore out the barrel by using the rod 10,000 times? Seems to me that could get to a barrel even if one were pretty careful. Dragging the gunk in and out and then seating the new shot=lots of miles up and down.
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #87 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 6:01pm
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uscra112 wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 6:41am:
Somebody on the forum here managed to score the last of that kind of paper from a papermaker, and sold some of it here.  

I count myself blessed that I bought a quire.  It is kept in an underground vault guarded by six starving Rottweilers.....don't get any ideas.   Grin


Phil, if you have six starving Rottweiler's guarding your PP stash, I can get past them without any bother and they will be my friends for life. I have a method and I have proven it works. It worked so well with a couple of this breed they were smothering me with kisses and then had a go at the owner when he returned home. Lol. How do I do it? Simple, I give each a large steak (cut up). They are then your friend for life, as long as you feed them well. Wink

Harry
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Paper patching, why?
Reply #88 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 8:11pm
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calledflyer wrote on Apr 19th, 2016 at 4:44pm:

Schuetzenmiester, could it be that the muzzleloaders wore out the barrel by using the rod 10,000 times? Seems to me that could get to a barrel even if one were pretty careful. Dragging the gunk in and out and then seating the new shot=lots of miles up and down.



I suppose it could be either ramrods or heat erosion.  I never got any particulars, just to expect my barrel to shoot about 10,000 rounds before the accuracy dropped off. 

All the originals I have checked, not a lot, would lose a snugly fit patch in the chamber area that was pushed down the bore.  I always supposed that to be heat erosion and gas cutting blowing past the bullet before it bumped up to seal the bore. 

I have a .54 flinter with a GM barrel with about 7500 rounds through it.  It was shooting just fine with no sign of erosion in the chamber area. It will probably stay that way.  I can't see irons to shoot accurately.  I won't know now if the accuracy did go south  Cry


  

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