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Paper patching, why? (Read 32907 times)

harry_eales Ex Member	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #45 - Apr 16^th, 2016 at 5:01pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Apr 15^th, 2016 at 4:12pm: I'd like to see a bullet roller in operation. Seems like it would be nearly impossible to accurately install wet paper on a bullet with 19th century technology. In the Borchardt design of PP machine the patches were lightly steamed by a thin pipe coming from a kettle under the machine. Given that the patching rate was over 50 bullets a minute, the patches held in a magazine would hardly be dampened never mind wet. Other machines are likely to vary. Harry


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #46 - Apr 16^th, 2016 at 6:16pm	Print Post
	Did they have a little glue on them to make them stick?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #47 - Apr 16^th, 2016 at 8:02pm	Print Post
	yes they did, which goes against all we know about accurate pp bullets. it might only have been the leading edge of the bullet , and the glue was mucellage (spelling?) this glue might have been very weak to allow paper to strip. keep safe, bruce.

	ventum est amicus meus
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1671 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #48 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 2:40am	Print Post
	Stonehenge describes it as forming the patch on a wooden dowel, using as little gum as possible to hold the formed patch together. Presumably, the patch formed this way was then slipped over the bullet... Reading his comments on GG bullets are also enlightening


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #49 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 3:20am	Print Post
	Who is Stonehenge ?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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harry_eales Ex Member	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #50 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 8:50am	Print Post
	bruce moulds wrote on Apr 16^th, 2016 at 8:02pm: yes they did, which goes against all we know about accurate pp bullets. it might only have been the leading edge of the bullet , and the glue was mucellage (spelling?) this glue might have been very weak to allow paper to strip. keep safe, bruce. The amount of mucilage used was minute. It was transferred from the paste pot to the bullet by a very thin needle that touched the side of the bullet just before it got to the paper patch magazine. Apparently the paper patch was stripped out of the magazine as the bullet passed bye and the slightly moist paper patch was rolled around the bullet and at the same time the small amount of paper protruding below the base of the bullet was folded in over and under the base of the bullet . If nothing else, Hugo Borchardt was an inventive genius. Harry


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1671 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #51 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 9:25am	Print Post
	Schuetzenmiester wrote on Apr 17^th, 2016 at 3:20am: Who is Stonehenge ? Thry this: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) But the books (The Modern Sportsman's Gun and Rifle (1882–1884)) could be considered one of the authoritative books of the day as to shotgun/rifle shooting in the UK.


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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1671 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #52 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 9:31am	Print Post
	Lots of misinformation re. PP bullets nd rifling - quite a lot of people clain sharp rifling is needed in order to slice the patch and get reliable patch blow-off at the muzzle - but the most successful type of rifling in the UK was Metford segmental - which doesn't have a sharp edge anywhere, just like lancaster oval bore. And both were quite successful with PP bullets.... Of course, both were also gaintwist.


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #53 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 12:05pm	Print Post
	All this makes me regret I was misguided by "experts" down the GG path all those many years ago

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11439 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #54 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 2:09pm	Print Post
	Was at a gong match in Colorado years ago. A shooter had a nice Sharps reproduction. We all marveled at how the paper came off his bullets right at the muzzle every time. He never hit a gong all day. Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #55 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 2:45pm	Print Post
	Coupla little factoids about the 11mm Mauser. The rifle was adopted in 1871, so the principle of paper patching must predate that, at least in Germany. The original military ammo used a swaged, dead soft lead bullet, which mikes about .440" even after patching. I have a 71/84 and some of that original ammo, and have verified this. The paper is quite thin, only .0015 or so. Of course it's also over 100 years old, so one can't assume it was like that when new. The theory behind this was alleged by Paul Matthews to be that the undersized bullet would fit into a fouled throat, and obturate into the rifling on firing. Dominion GG ammo mikes .445", by the way.

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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #56 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 4:14pm	Print Post
	schuetzenmeister, it is never too late to start down the true path. spurn all wrongdoing. keep safe, bruce.

	ventum est amicus meus
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #57 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 5:24pm	Print Post
	But I don't shoot LR any more. That 60%improvement in wind drift will go to waste

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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bruce moulds Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 290 Location: the antipodes Joined: Mar 14^th, 2015	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #58 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 10:29pm	Print Post
	important at 200 yds as well. it is a wonderful journey with a great ending. imagine winning a schuetzen match wit p.p. and fixed ammo. pp bullets sure shoot well breech seated too. keep safe, bruce.

	ventum est amicus meus
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Paper patching, why? Reply #59 - Apr 17^th, 2016 at 11:42pm	Print Post
	I'm not going to try PPing 25s My 33 won't take fixed ammo. The bullet diameter is the same as the case OD.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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