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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Casting trouble can someone help. (Read 11835 times)
boho
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Casting trouble can someone help.
Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:10am
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Hello and Happy Easter,

It used to take a few whacks for my bullet to drop from the mold. Now it is more like 6-8 good hits and this is wearing me out and can't be good for the mold. I am using a Paul Jones, 40001 mold. That's .40 cal. and it's only on it's second season. I pre-heat the mold while the alloy is melting by placing it above the pot and covered with tin foil.When the lead is ready the mold is good and hot. I keep the last bullet cast from the last session in the mold so as not to get any crap inside while it's heating up. This takes 20 mins.The alloy is 750-800 degs. I use a gas burner and 20 lb cast iron pot with a ladle. I don't use any type of release agent. I follow Pauls instructions. I flux with wax and start casting. The first bullet out is always filled out nicely and an keeper because of the hot mold. Lately I am having a hard time getting the bullet to drop out. I haven't changed anything and can't see any thing wrong with the mold. I don't mind 3-4 hits but 8 maybe even 10 whacks! somethings wrong. I have noticed that pushing against the right half of the mold at its pivot point seems to work but at a price. The bullet is ripped out of the mold and the sharp edge of the mold cuts into every bullet leaving marks down the length of the bands. I don't do it this way because those marks on the bullet grab at the case when I hand seat them. I recently got a $100 mold from Boomer Bullet Molds up in Canada. Very nicely made open the mold and the bullet just drops out. He just can't seem to make them the right size for me. So I am struggling with this Paul Jones Mold. Can anyone tell me why my mold wouldn't let go of the bullet.

Bob H.
  
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KAF
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #1 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:23am
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When I had a stubborn mold, I'd use some green abrasive pad folled to be just a bit larger than the cavity and rotae it by hand or whatever to knock out burrs that might be there.

Trying to remember what the pad is called.............it is like nylon or plastic, so don't do it if the mold is hot.  easy and might work.

Scotch brite.......  it came to mind.
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #2 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 11:32am
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If it is always the same side (same block) that it sticks in, I suggest that the hole is not central.
Fred
  
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Ciao998
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #3 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 12:29pm
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I'd bet your mold is getting too hot.... Every durn time my bullets stick I'm too hot.

Clean it and see, if that don't work try slowing your rythym a bit.

John
  
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Wincacher
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #4 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 12:45pm
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Ditto on "mold getting too hot".  I use a Lee Pro 4-20 pot and as the bullets start to stick a little I start gradually dropping the temperature to where eventually a setting of around 3.75 is ideal for me.  I usually cast around 200 - 250 bullets at a time and all my dies are Lyman or RCBS steel ones.  Haven't had to clean a die in over 40 years of casting other that the rare need to remove some sprue from the air vents on the edges of the mold when it has gotten too hot.
  

Wayne
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #5 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 12:58pm
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I have a PJ .45 mould that does that sometimes.  What happens in my case is the mould and alloy get a little too hot and the cavity fills with a tiny amount extruding into the vent lines and along the border of the cavity on one or both of the blocks.  It takes an extra whack or two (not as many as yours, but it is a heavier bullet) to get the casting out, and it shows a line of tiny little tears along the mould line.  The flashing sticks to the lead along the line, maintaining itself and continuing the sticking (and the tearing) through the casting session.

I have a scrap piece of sheet copper snipped into a triangle, and if the flashing is localized I can get rid of it by rubbing one of the points of the triangle against it.  If it's too extensive, though, the only fix I've found is to take one of those bullets, wipe it with Clover 320, and rotate it five turns or so in the cavity.

To keep it from coming back, I take a Q-Tip with a tiny drop of Bull Plate Lube and go over the block faces up to (but not into) the cavity.  Properly applied, the stuff will not migrate where it doesn't belong, and just a trace of it repels lead like car wax does water.  I put it on the tops of blocks and the bottoms of sprue plates for the same reason.

Whatever finish Mr. Jones put on those moulds sheds lead like magic and the castings will practically fall out by themselves, but it appears that much use and oxidation, and the practice of casting extremely "runny" alloys like Linotype-wheelwright mixtures, seems to reduce this quality.  That's another thing I don't do any more; I use the Jones mould for only lead-tin mixtures.  The bullets come out with a tap or two now.
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #6 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 1:45pm
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Your Running too Hot. Drop your Temp 20 degrees and try it if that dosen't work try 10 drgrees more. until it drops out.

40 Rod
  
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JLouis
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #7 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 6:58pm
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I agree with Fred's, statement bullet cavity may not be centered. Its easy to check with a Vernier simply measure the depth of each side of the mould blocks at the base. If they are not equal the bullet will indeed stick to the deeper side as it would wrap around the bullet beyond the center line and grip it in place. Hopefully that is not the issue as there is no way to correct it and it only takes being off a few thousandths from center to create that particular issue.

JLouis
  

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boho
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #8 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:14pm
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I was thinking the same thing about it being too hot. They don't show frosting but I have been lazy with the thermometer and can't remember using it lately and  I am sure it's over 800 degs. I will keep it lower next time and see if it helps. The bullet always sticks on the left side but I doubt that there is an alignment problem but there will be if I have to keep hitting it so much. Is it really OK to use Scotch Brite inside the mold it is an abrasive after all. I guess there could be burrs in there. If you say it's alright I may give it a try. Thanks.
  
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boho
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #9 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:39pm
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John, I just did as you said and measured the blocks. They are fine. Each half measured .450". The two half's  put together measure 1.309". The cavity is .409". Paul was  a tool grinder by trade. I don't think he made many mistakes when it came to his molds. They are a work of art. No this mold went from being really good to the current problem. Hopefully it's the temperature that is the problem and not the mold.

Take care
Bob
  
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Myers
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #10 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 7:51pm
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From my personal experience 800 degree melt seems way to hot. I set my pot at 750 degree weather casting indoors or outside. Verified with a lead thermometer.
My bullets drop like butter out of any of my Jones molds.
  
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John in PA
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #11 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 8:07pm
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You didn't mention what alloy you are using. Harder alloys, especially Lyman #2 or others with antimony on board, shrink very little and can be clingy. 
Smoke the mold with a wooden match.  Wood match, let the initial flare die out, then smoke the mold till it's sooty, like you smoked it with an a rich-burning acetylene torch or carbide lamp.  Or use a release agent.  There's a reason why it bears that name.(  Wink  )
  

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JS47
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #12 - Mar 27th, 2016 at 9:54pm
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If nothing else works you might try lightly lapping the mould with 320 grit.  This is nothing new, Phil Sharpe wrote about it in the '30's.  I've cured several balky moulds this way.

JS
  
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #13 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 6:25pm
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When I cast at 800* or a little over I have to give the bullet a little time to cool and shrink. I may go to 30 seconds before I cut the sprue after the sprue freezes and open the mould.
Is the sprue cutting clean or tearing?
  
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Re: Casting trouble can someone help.
Reply #14 - Mar 28th, 2016 at 8:56pm
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I agree with the above, wait about 20 or 30 seconds before swinging the sprue plate over and see if this helps. You should have a nicely centred cutoff in the base of the bullet, if the cutoff shows signs of being smeared you are being to hasty.
I cast all my bullets at 800, they weigh 520 gr for the 45 cal bullets and 300 + for my 38 cal ones.
The only mould I use that I cast with at a lower temperature is a Lyman mould that has much smaller blocks than my Paul Jones moulds, even then the temp is 780.
Mike.
  
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