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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ramshot Enforcer (Read 22276 times)
bwdog
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Ramshot Enforcer
Mar 25th, 2016 at 1:52pm
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Powder Valley has 4 pound and 1 pound  Enforcer in stock .
  
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JackHughs
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #1 - Mar 25th, 2016 at 3:17pm
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I purchased some of the new production Ramshot Enforcer from Mid South about 2 months ago.  Once upon a time, Enforcer may have been the same powder (different package) as AA 4100 but that is no longer the case.

The new production Enforcer is visibly different from 4100 as it has a smaller granulation and a different color.  For the same setting on a Harrell's powder measure, the new Enforcer weighs a few 10's less than 4100.

New Enforcer produced substantially more vertical dispersion at 200 yards than 4100.  However, testing was done with a .32-40.  It may be that the new Enforcer would perform better in a small capacity case like the .32 RKS.

Another interesting characteristic was that increasing the powder charge from 13.5 grains to 15.1 grains did not produce any over-pressure signs.  The primer did not even flatten at 15.1 grains.

More testing is in order.

JackHughs
  

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Pentz
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #2 - Mar 25th, 2016 at 4:23pm
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FWIW my last CBA match with the new enforcer gave very promising results.  My first target was a 50 but I wound up with a 385 due to some dropped shots which may have resulted from the use of a Lyman 55 powder measure.  I did hit 3 pinwheels in a row at 200, though, and got my entry fee back.   
The measure was checked every 10 rounds but a few may have slipped through.  the load was 12.0 under a Hoch 208/25-1.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #3 - Mar 25th, 2016 at 5:23pm
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The new production Enforcer is visibly different from 4100 as it has a smaller granulation and a different color.  

That was my experiance when I checked my Enforcer againt Jerry's, 3 years ago. I don't have any 4100 to test though. The curious thing is that Western Powder says they are the same!!???

I've been watching for 4100 for 3 years now and not a grain of it has turned up Sad

Frank
  

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JLouis
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #4 - Mar 25th, 2016 at 6:29pm
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I have found they will tell you what you want to hear as they are in the business of selling their products nothing more nothing less. 

JLouis
  

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JerryH
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #5 - Mar 25th, 2016 at 8:09pm
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I found a pound of Enforcer at a local store last week. I'll do some side-by-side testing with it and AA4100 in a few weeks using my 25-20 WCF rifle. 

I'll be sure to report back with my findings.

JerryH
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #6 - Mar 25th, 2016 at 9:24pm
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Wonderful, Jerry. I'm sure that we will all look forward to your results.

Thank you,

Frank
  

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JackHughs
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #7 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 3:57pm
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I had another go at Enforcer testing this morning.  Holding the powder charge constant at 14.6 grains, I shot test groups using Remington 2 1/2 primers, Remington 9 1/2 primers, Federal 210 GMM primers, Federal 155 GMM primers, S&B Large Rifle primers, Winchester LP primers, and CCI BR2 primers.

Out of these eight different primers, only the Federal 155 GMM (large pistol magnum) primers would produce groups with less than 1" of vertical dispersion.

Groups varied from 5 to 8 shots and the barrel was cleaned before starting a different brand of primers.

At the end, I shot several more groups using the Federal 155's and adjusting the powder charge.  Enforcer would only hold under 1" of vertical dispersion between 14.4 and 14.7 grains.

This has to be the "fussiest" powder ever made!

JackHughs
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #8 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 5:31pm
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I shot it Saturday at the match, in my 30/30 Wesson (Hoch action, RKS bbl). 

I used 11.0 gr and 7 1/2 Rem primers, a load I worked out, last year. After sighting in, my first four shots, went into 1/2, the 5th went out over 2". From there, it just got worse and worse. 3" vertical and about the same horizontal. No detectable wind but, it was raining lightly.

I had shot a 247 with it, last year but, it was my fist target. For me, it seems to get worse the more shots I fire. Burns clean, never any leading but, maybe it doesn't like my lube?

When I worked the load up last year, it had good ballistics 1476, 26 ES and 7 SD.

I had high hopes for the Enforcer but, I'm going to use #9 now.

Frank
  

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JLouis
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #9 - Mar 29th, 2016 at 10:01pm
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Disappointing results to say the least Jan and I do not buy into Western Powder's
claims that is the same as AA4100. It would be beyond reason to have two different Powder manufactures manufacture exactly the same powder even if they were owned by the same investment group. It makes me also wonder if each of the two powders are made in the same facility in the same country?

JLouis
  

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JerryH
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #10 - Mar 30th, 2016 at 12:18am
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For what it's worth this is what Western Powder told me. 

AA4100 and Ramshot Enforcer are manufactured by the same plant in Belgium. The powder is shipped in bulk to the USA and then is tested, and if it meets all the specs it is packaged for sale to the public. According to Western Powder both powders come out of the same bulk container. Western Powder owns both Accurate Arms and Ramshot powders.

Lot to lot variations? A change in specs? Who knows?

I do know that a long time shooter has had excellent results with Ramshot Enforcer substituted for AA4100. He sent me his test results in a PM but I won't divulge his identity. He was shooting a small capacity case, compared to a 32-40.

I hope to duplicate those results soon.

JerryH
« Last Edit: Mar 30th, 2016 at 12:29am by JerryH »  

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JackHughs
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #11 - Mar 30th, 2016 at 10:55am
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I'm looking forward to seeing some small-case test results for new production Enforcer.  I could do this myself but I've developed more than a few slothful habits in my old age that militate against getting out either the .32-20 CPA or the .32 RKS.  Shooting a .32-40 is just so darned comfortable!

As I mentioned earlier, new production Enforcer is not the same as old production 4100.  It's a completely different powder with respect to granulation, color, and density.  So, while old production Enforcer and old production 4100 may well have been exactly the same powder packaged in different containers, neither of those powders have been marketed for several years and that correspondence is now irrelevant.

New production Enforcer is a "new" powder and will either rise or fall on its own merits.   I hope that JerryH reports stellar results.

JackHughs
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #12 - Mar 30th, 2016 at 2:48pm
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I bought my first can of Enforcer about 4+ years ago and I bought the other can, when I found it on the shelf of Sportsmans Warehouse, 3 weeks ago.

The first picture is one I took in 5/13, comparing Enforcer to #9 and WC820, either before or after, I went to Modesto to to shoot. 

When I was down there, I compared it with JerryH's 4100, in the sunlight. The granulation was a little different (I think 4100 was noticeably larger) and the color, noticeable different, also.

The other two pictures are my old Enforcer and the 3 week old Enforcer. The old Enforcer is on the left of both pictures. I enlarged the second picture, from the first, before re-sizing to fit on the forum.

I can't see any difference in the size or shape of the granulations. I can detect a very slight difference in the color.

I have quite a bit left from my "old" Enforcer, because it wouldn't shoot in my 33 Elco Max (1.61 x 33 cal, 357 Max case). It should have close to the same bore/case ratio as the 32 RSK. But, no other powder but, #9 will shoot well in my 33 either.

Frank
  

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Re: Ramshot Enforcerpi
Reply #13 - Mar 30th, 2016 at 7:40pm
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I don't see any merit in size and color its a by guess and by golly way of trying to verify powder changes or to compare them to others. Even if they looked the same, smelled the same and tasted the same would the burn rate still be the same? H-108 and WC820 have been claimed to be thee same powder but they don't look exactly the same in size or color. But the burn rates must be the same as they shoot the same. If different powders or a different lot of the same powder appears to be the same the only way to verify it as a true comparison is to go and shoot multiple targets to see what they have to say. But if your rifle doesn't shoot up to par to start out with its all for not and its back to by guess and by golly. There are very few who have this ability such as Jan, Jerry H, Rick MacHale, Myself in this part of the country and others who have spent the time to get thier rifles shooting to the very best of thier ability and can honestly recognize a change in performance. When they speak I listen and take it to Heart, those fellows who shoot in New York judged by thier scores can do the same as well as they just don't luck into thier extremely consistant competitive success. There is group in San Diego that can do the same such as Joe Feldman look at his competitive consistency. For those of you who are new to the game of Scuetzen keep a close eye on the scores as they are continualy posted on this site, those always in the top three are the one's you want to listen to and learn from. Send them PM's and pick thier Brains, most if not all will get you where you want to be. They do not speak up very often on this site as thier knowledge would only be contradicted by those who know more but have done less and I don't blame them for thier open lack of sharing.

JLouis
  

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Re: Ramshot Enforcer
Reply #14 - Mar 30th, 2016 at 7:52pm
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My sincere thanks to you, John ............ and the other dedicated shooters following this thread and posting their findings. I, and other of the "less experienced", truly appreciate your input. Thank you all. With your help, perhaps we can keep this wonderful sport alive and well. I try to not miss a post.
  

In GOD We Trust
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