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Tomfoolery
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Help with old target rifle re-loading
Mar 6th, 2016 at 5:11pm
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Gentlemen, I purchased an old, antique, target rifle originating somewhere in Europe. It is a center fire, bolt action, has open sites on the barrel plus square receiver at the end of the upper tang for a diopter sight. I have made a bore slug and have casted the chamber for measurements. But I cannot make any sense of what configuration of ammo or method of loading this rifle requires to fire it. I have considered breech loaded, paper patch, and everything else I can think of but still nothing makes sense. A shortened .44 Spec. case will fit the chamber but look at the drawing of the slug and the chamber and you may see what is confusing to me. I have photos of the rifle and drawings of the bore slug and chamber to upload to this site so that hopefully someone may be able to ID what this rifle needs to shoot. Mechanically it's in fine condition. I can e-mail much larger photo's to anyone interested in seeing them.
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2016 at 9:03pm by »  
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Bnelson
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Re: Help with old target rifle re-loading
Reply #1 - Mar 6th, 2016 at 10:52pm
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Looking through Dixon's book on European cartridges, there isn't a lot that looks close.  The thick rim indicates a Mauser "A" base style but it is a smaller diameter, much like the Tesching target cartridges.  Most of those, however, have a base diameter of 13 mm, instead of your 11.6.  The closest one is the 10.5 x 40R that was only made by Roth from 1878 to 1914.  The timing is probably right, but certainly not sure on the exact case.  It will be something that you have to play with.  Good Luck.
Bruce
  
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Re: Help with old target rifle re-loading
Reply #2 - Mar 6th, 2016 at 11:10pm
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Hi Tom.

I too have a very similar problem with a drilling rifle chamber. Spent much time trying to ID the chamber with no success. Have been moving, so notes are in a box who knows where. My drilling chamber is very similar to yours. If I load a bullet in a two inch 410 paper shell, fits the gun perfectly. If I want to use a brass shell, neck walls will have to be .020 thick. 

Just found this note in my PC. 

         Joe.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Help with old target rifle re-loading
Reply #3 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:12pm
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I can see two ways to go with your chamber but, either way, you'll need to get some 303 Brit cases and shorten them to a minimun of 1.77 and expand the neck so that they will chamber with a little resistance. Then fire form them with 10.0 gr of Unique, topped off with CoW or corn meal. Hold it in with a grease wad.

Inspect them to see if the mouth of the case is beveled. If it is, shorten until that gone. Since your chamber cast shows a sharp transistion from the neck to the throat, at the 1.77 it should just show that transition point after the case fire forms. If not make the next one a little longer.

If you do the case that way, it will head space on the rim, like a 30 Carbine or ACP pistol case.

If you want to head space on the rim, it vwill be a little expensive but, get your 303 case, measure the rim thickness and go nto a machine shop (or friend with a lathe) and have them turn and bore spacers to give you a total rim thickness of .097.

Frank
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Help with old target rifle re-loading
Reply #4 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:21pm
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The bullet is a little more iffy as you have 3 diameters and you haven't given us the twist rate.

I think I'd try starting with a .406 diameter, with a bore riding, .392 nose for fixed loads. Accurate  molds could make one but, you have to get the twist for length.

Frank
  

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Re: Help with old target rifle re-loading
Reply #5 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:43pm
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I have one similar
Mine is a 11.5x35 werder.  Using 43 Mauser brass and using .452 cowboy bullets.  16 grains of 5744 overall length of 2.006
  
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Tomfoolery
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Re: Help with old target rifle re-loading
Reply #6 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 1:02pm
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Thank all of you for taking time and thought to help unravel this bit of mystery. You may be certain that you have added new energy into my effort to get this oldie firing again. 

"Down with all Wall-Hangers!" (and to the range). Thanks again!
  
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