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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3 (Read 14876 times)
Roscoe
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Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:02pm
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Is the Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3 a black powder only rifle?
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #1 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:29pm
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I would say it depends on the cartridge it is chambered in.

Chris.
  
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bohemianway
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #2 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:41pm
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You will find that Shiloh lists them as BP only except for the 30-40 , 38-55, and 405 etc. However, there are many that load smokeless. I have loaded my 45-120 duplexed at 1800 fps (it flattens the primers out nicely)  with a 500 gr. since I found that the original owner couldn't get it to shoot and I found one inch of a case neck lodged in the rifling ahead of the chamber. And, he had shot many rounds through this obstruction without effecting the rifle. YRMV.
  
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shovel80
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #3 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:45pm
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I''ve seem on the shiloh site that someone wrote that kirk, the owner said they would take anything a Ruger #1 would take....
Call shiloh and ask..!

Terry
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #4 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 3:06am
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bohemianway wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 11:41pm:
You will find that Shiloh lists them as BP only except for the 30-40 , 38-55, and 405 etc. However, there are many that load smokeless. I have loaded my 45-120 duplexed at 1800 fps (it flattens the primers out nicely)  with a 500 gr. since I found that the original owner couldn't get it to shoot and I found one inch of a case neck lodged in the rifling ahead of the chamber. And, he had shot many rounds through this obstruction without effecting the rifle. YRMV.

I'm surprised he didn't feel the rifle vibrating when the bullet rattled down the barrel  Shocked
  

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bohemianway
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #5 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 2:48pm
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It was somewhat of a sad story. These brothers had a respectable Sharps collection, a farm, and raised Buffalo back in the Eighties. So they chose to use this 45-120 to take one down old school. They sold me the gun because it just wasn't enough to bring the buffalo down. I was confused because a 45-120 should drop one like a rock. Their story was that they shot the critter and it just sat there in pain so they tried several more shots with no success so they got out their modern high power rifle to put it out of it's misery. Once I got it home and found that the cleaning rod kept getting stuck at the throat and fixed it, it was obvious why this 45-120 didn't meet expectations. Now it shoots like a dream (for a 45-120 in a Business rifle, Ouch  Cry).
  
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2016 at 4:50pm
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47-59...no longer made. Is a good substitute for BP loads to get same velocity as BP load, around 17.5 gr starting  no wad. 
Duplex loads with Goex#1 1/2 and 10% 4227 of the load (50gr BP to 5gr 4227) works very well and no need to blowtube. I use this when I hunt. Go to the Shiloh Forum, all the advice and good experience you'll find there........
« Last Edit: Feb 29th, 2016 at 8:34am by Skalkaho »  

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bohemianway
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #7 - Feb 28th, 2016 at 9:49am
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Back on topic, as in many posts here, if you stick to calibers with 70 or less in there name for powder charge you should be OK with  plain based lead bullet loadings (no high speed stuff). 4198, 4895, 5744 (with some reservations), Reloader 7, etc. There are many available powders for these.
  
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John in PA
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #8 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 12:45pm
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On Shiloh action strength:  When Wolf Droege was developing the cartridge guns for production back in Farmingdale, NY, I was visiting one time.  He was telling me about safety testing at HP White.  They had run the gun up past any factory smokeless ammo pressures (around 55000? IIRC)  Anyhow, he told them to keep going till they blew the gun up.  At 200,000 PSI, the receiver ring egged and blew the barrel out of the receiver.  No shrapnel.  He showed me the receiver and the barrel.  Just a big egg-shaped receiver ring! Ruger (Pine Tree Castings) was making the receiver blanks (and other cast parts) for Shiloh back then.  Don't know which foundry the current Shiloh folks use.

The guns (as Wolf was making them) will take anything a sane person would put in them.  BUT, the earliest 1874's with the large firing pin hole will blow primers, with subsequent gas issues, though the gas *should* escape out the vertical hole in the breechblock firing pin channel due to the dovetail plate in the rear of the block.  Unlike Sharps originals, which will shoot it back in your face.
  

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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #9 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 1:48pm
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Pretty much with the quality of modern steels, the sharps action is pretty strong. I know a gunsmith that built one and I don't know who's casting he used, but he did a gove conversion to it in which the breach block tilts and will cam a round into the chamber. When I saw him last year he told me that he finally managed to blow his rifle up but would not say what the load was but I am sure that it was way above sane.
I would think that the Shiloh would be as strong or stronger than a Marlin and when your loads exceed those for a marlin your getting into the painful area. 
Or you could just stick with black and lead bullets. They will work surprisingly well.
Sam
  
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #10 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 4:04pm
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The Shiloh is definitely a strong rifle.  Shiloh's official position on smokeless is on their web site somewhere.  Basically if the rifle is chambered for a cartridge that is currently available as a commercial smokeless loading then they say you are fine.  Kirk has more than once stated on his web forum that a Shiloh in .45-70 is every bit as strong as a Ruger #1 chambered in the same cartridge.

However shooting jacked up loads in a single shot with a steel buttplate is not my idea of fun Smiley

Chris.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #11 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 4:56pm
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Roscoe, since you didn't mention the caliber you might be interested in, look the calibers they make here ... 
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

The most common is the 45-70 and as long as you reload with smokeless powder less than SAMMI 28,000 psi - you'd be in safe have.
As for the other calibers available, look up the SAMMI maximum psi's here ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links); The pressures are listed as Pressure Limits
(fps) (psi/100)(1)
  
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Roscoe
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #12 - Mar 7th, 2016 at 7:24pm
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Thanks for all the helpful information.  I did find on the Shiloh forum where Kirk had talked about comparing it to the Ruger as well as the factory rounds that are currently available are safe.

I plan on starting off first with 5744 and may also try out Blackhorn 209.
  
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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #13 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 1:55am
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Roscoe, 
FWIW, I've built, loaded and shot several of these rifles for years, (Shilo's, Winchester's, Remington's, Ballards, even Pedersoli's) started with black, convinced  myself early on that black was the only way, about ten or twelve years ago I experimented with duplex and smokeless both, I've settled on smokeless with results consistent and close to all the black I've burned.  What I really like about smokeless is the cleanup, the guns are the same, but the brass... cleaning the brass after a black load is a pita.   I load smokeless in .38 cal.,40's, 45's, 50's and getting ready in a .577. All I ever shoot is lead cast though, and I keep my velocities very similar to the loads in black powder.   My preferred powder is  5744, one of the secrets I have discovered  in loading this... Accurate claims this powder is not position sensitive, maybe not the smaller cases, but on the larger cases, I use a toilet paper filler, 1/4 to half sheet, and I use a card at the base of the bullet, this seems to improve consistency.  There are load specifications published by Accurate, start at minimums and don't chase max loadings just because they are there.  I discovered quite a while back, my guns and loads do extremely well, most of the issues are from the guy jerking the trigger, occasionally I find another place to place the blame, bullets, wind, sight, a particular gun, but mostly me.
  

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Re: Shilo Sharps 1874 Sporter #3
Reply #14 - Mar 8th, 2016 at 9:18am
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The 1874 is a strong action and will take reasonable smokeless loads. If you look at the picture of the 1874 failure at Quigley last year you can see that the action did its job. It was the barrel that couldn’t stand up to the abuse that the shooter put it through.

40 Rod
  
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