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jagfolks
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Saeco 732
Feb 24th, 2016 at 1:34pm
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I recently bought some 200 grain .321 bullets from a Saeco 732 mold for my CPA rifle with a Douglas 1-15 twist barrel and find that the bullets are tipping at 100 yards. I raised the powder load from 14 grains of 4227 to 14.5 thinking that an increase in velocity would help with no improvement. These bullets are 1.045 on length and by my charts they should be stable in a 1-15 barrel.  I wonder if any of you have any thoughts?
Bob
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #1 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 2:16pm
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Another thing that will cause tipping is when the bullet enters the transonic region.

The 732 has a low BC and could be shedding velocity enough to be in that zone. That type of tipping can still be pretty accurate though.

It would help if you could chronograph the load but, it's perfectly safe to raise your powder charge to between 14.8 and 15.5.

14.8 was my most accurate load in my 32/40, Douglas, 15 twist but, using a spitzer.

Frank
  

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jagfolks
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #2 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 4:27pm
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Thanks fellows! The backer board wasn't the problem as I was doing a comparison of three different bullets and these were the only ones that showed signs of tipping. What's really strange is one of the three  was Dave Bennetts new swaged 200 grain .321 bullet that he and Paul Shuttleworth worked out and being pointed they are 1.125 long and yet didn't tip! The Saeco bullets shoot fairly well, tipping and all, and the next time I'm to the range I will try a little heavier load.
Thanks again,
Bob
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #3 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 4:47pm
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I shoot those bullets in my CPA at 200m, but with black powder in a 1:14 twist barrel.  They alway tip a bit for me except in summer when the air is warmer.  The faster I shoot them the less they tip.  That bullet does seem to tip more than others for me, but it has shot pretty well.

Chris.
  
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stubbicatt
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #4 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 8:04am
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Maybe I missed it, but jagfolks, is this a 32-40?
  
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Brudford01
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #5 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 11:18am
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Jagfolks, I have that exact same mould for my CPA 32-40. And yes my bullets tip also ? Less tipping when I increased the IMR 4227 powder charge but less accurate ? Infact the Saeco mould even with the tipped bullets were still more accurate that the Hoch mould that Paul Shuttleworth sold me with the rifle ? The Saeco bullets are more difficult to seat with my plugged 32-40 case.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #6 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 12:22pm
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Sg =      1.76
That's a low Stability Factor number!
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #7 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 4:44pm
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Brudford01 wrote on Feb 25th, 2016 at 11:18am:
Jagfolks, I have that exact same mould for my CPA 32-40. And yes my bullets tip also ? Less tipping when I increased the IMR 4227 powder charge but less accurate ? Infact the Saeco mould even with the tipped bullets were still more accurate that the Hoch mould that Paul Shuttleworth sold me with the rifle ? The Saeco bullets are more difficult to seat with my plugged 32-40 case.


I found the same with both my .32-40 barrels.  One is a Douglas and the other is a Badger.  My Hoch 322200D doesn't fit either barrel well.  The Saeco 200gr works well in the Badger barrel.

  I had Steve Brooks make a nice .32 cal mold with the shank of the Saeco bullet ( but changed the band diameters a bit ), and the nose of the Hoch.  It is a lot less tippy.  Often the Saeco is still as accurate in the Badger barrel, but the Brooks one looks to be very good in the Douglas barrel.

Chris.

  
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John Boy
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #8 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 5:59pm
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Don Miller recommends your stability factor needs to be between 1.4 (bullet too long which can result in tumbling) or 2.0 (where over spinning of a short bullet may affect accuracy).
Dave, I use the Powley Stability Calculator:
SF > 1.3 = Bullet is stabilized      
SF > 1.5 = Bullet is maximally stabilized      
For the Ideal 375166 bullet, for BP & 300-MP reloads, the SF's are 3.20 and 3.32.  They shoot MOA at 200yds            
  
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jagfolks
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #9 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 8:09pm
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Thanks fellows! I neglected to mention that it is a 32-40 and I will up the load a little and give it another try as soon as the snow melts again. These bullets do breach seat easily using a plugged case not that it improves "operator error"!
Bob
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #10 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:32am
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Shoot five shot groups adding a little until the groups close up. When the groups start to open up again back down. Don't worry if the bullets tip a little some bullets shoot better with a little tip. Worry about group size. If you can't shoot groups you can't shoot scores.

40 Rod
  
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John Boy
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Re: Saeco 732
Reply #11 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 12:09pm
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These bullets do breach seat easily using a plugged case
Using a plugged 32-40 case on the CPA ... because of the bullet your using - I've found that the end of the plugged case extends past the point where the block cannot rock it into the chamber nor will thumb pressure seat the bullet ...
  
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