Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic bullet clones.. (Read 1901 times)
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3968
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
bullet clones..
Feb 12th, 2016 at 2:17pm
Print Post  
A few days ago I made a reference to a Clerke bullet mold I own in another discussion. The number is 323 965.
I bought the mold to see if it would perform just a wee bit better than my very, very similar Ideal 321232. I wanted to see if it might be an enhanced version of a bullet my rifle does quite well with most of the time.
Have any of the clone, copy, or whatever term you choose molds you own, been compared side-by-side with the original, and what was the result?  In my case the original was better, and I'm curious about the general run of this kind of thing.
Here, there are a few little differences, and the intent may not have been to replicate the Ideal mold, but the fact is, that it's quite similar. I wondered if the differences may have been for production reasons. Smaller meplat and shorter distance to the base from the lowest groove. Same weight and length nearly.
In other words, do very small changes make much difference in bullets for you? How do you gauge which of two (or more) similar molds would be the one to choose?
« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2016 at 3:50pm by calledflyer »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7656
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: bullet clones..
Reply #1 - Feb 12th, 2016 at 2:33pm
Print Post  
What diameter do they cast. The Lyman/Ideal 321323, usually cast about .324. If the Clerke cast .322, your rifle may need a larger bullet to shoot well or if your shooting it BSed, the BS depth may need adjusted.

The depth of the grooves and the diameter of the nose can also effect the accuracy. But, small differences, can't really make much difference in accuracy.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3968
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: bullet clones..
Reply #2 - Feb 12th, 2016 at 3:49pm
Print Post  
Thanks, Frank. It does cast smaller than the Ideal, but I size the Ideal to .323 to clean 'em up. The Clerke casts just over .322 and I run those through the sizer to slap off the extra lube from pan lubing. In my earlier post I missed the Clerke number- it is 323965, not 322 like I typed. (I'll edit that). 
Rifle usually doesn't care with either size. Fixed. I've breech seated the Ideal, not the Clerke, but the comparison was both fixed. 
It isn't that the one is perfect, while the other shoots shotgun patterns, but I seem to sense a difference, and would like to figure how to pick my next mold- and, it may be a "clone".  Wink
PS- the Ideal is 321232- not the one you typed. Mine are a cylindrical pair of slugs.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7656
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: bullet clones..
Reply #3 - Feb 12th, 2016 at 6:41pm
Print Post  
calledflyer,
I guess I have the 319323 stuck in my mind, I ment, of course 321232.

If the nose at the juction of the front band, is larger, or the nose is larger over it's whole length, that will help with supporting the nose in the lands and if the diameter at the bottom of the grooves is larger, that strengthens the bullet overall. That's why I asked about those dimensions.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
calledflyer
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 3968
Joined: Mar 9th, 2015
Re: bullet clones..
Reply #4 - Feb 12th, 2016 at 8:01pm
Print Post  
Frank, what you say makes sense. I have no way to determine exact shape of the nose to see where the radii and all are, but the nose on the Ideal looks a little fatter and is .314 just above the first goove. From that point the bands are as sized. The grooves are +/- .287.
The Clerke is a bit more pointy, starting at .319 and tapering upward, first band (lower) is .322. Groove is .296 and narrow. That may explain why the skinny shaped nose is still almost the same weight? 
Overall length is within a thou. Both use a kiss on the rifling that equates to the same die setting being suitable, and I may add, easier to load Smiley I was confounded by this at first since the noses looked a scosh different to my eye. It seems that the Ideal seats on the leade inside the lube groove, while the Clerke seats just ahead of the first groove. Barrel dimensions are .315 and .321 as best I can measure. Unmodified Winchester barrel from 1889, and just about perfect. 
The Ideal has occasionally shot groups that are about 3/4, and tend to be an inch or a little above. Me, more than it being the limiting cause. The Clerke has never yet gone down to an inch. Limited number of trials. Mostly just over an inch and a quarter.
This isn't the end of the world, or a major worry. I would like to learn how to select molds with some higher likelyhood of success than just a wing and a prayer, though. Thanks for taking an interest here. Pat
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint