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Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf (Read 18502 times)

frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Feb 11^th, 2016 at 3:25pm	Print Post
	As a lot of you know, I've played with BSing 22rf since 1990 but, with standard match chambers (about .62 long) and 16 twist. My first rifle was a 922 H&A, with a 26" long, 1.06 across the flats, XX Douglas barrel and the second is a German Schuetzen with a 20" long George Titherington barrel. I tried many loads with many powders back in those days, using a 44 gr two diameter bullet, with no lube grooves. The same as the 49.5 gr pictured but, with a shorter nose (both the nose and the length of the bullet in the mold can be changed). My two best loads where 1.5 & 1.8 gr of B'eye but, I could run velocitys to 1442 fps average with 2.5 gr of Unique, in a 20" barrel (not accurate). The 1.5 gr load of B'eye, gave 1208 fps, 15.8 SD and 41 ES but with it I shot the .410 5 shot target. 1.8 gr B'eye gave me 1306 fps, 5 SD and 13 ES in the 26" barrel. I won matches at both my local club and Springfield, OR with the German rifle. At Springfield, during a match one year, I found that the 1.8 gr load was right at the limit of pressure, for the match chamber. I popped a case and the shot went just out of the scoring rings on the 6 bull target so, I quit using that load. Just 2 weeks ago, I finished my first dedicated BSing 22rf and after I built a sled for it and modified my rest for it. I took it to the range. It has the following spec's: 44 Stevens, Model 45 w/DST triggers. It was a 32/40 so, it has the hammer block. I posted a while back about a dual firing pin for this CF breech block, I did that (More about it in the next post) It has a 27.5" long, PacNor, 14 twist barrel, 1.110 across the flats. Chambered with my match reamer but, a .775 long chamber (sporting length). The end of the barrel is 1.125 round, for the sled. Through the years, I've collected some 22 molds, with this project in mind. I tried all but one mold, the RCBS-55 that casts 58+ gr in 20/1. It's the longest of the 22's and because the 225415, tipped badly, I didn't try it. Some things that I've learn: 1. I used the sporting length chamber because it increases case capacity and I had hoped to shoot at least 60+ gr bullets. With the 56 gr bullet, I'm not getting any pressure signs so, I may shorten the chamber to .675, 2 threads on the barrel 2. I should have started with at least a 12 twist barrel, maybe even a 10. Based on what I've done so far, I think I can get a 70 gr bullet stabilized at 1000 fps, within the pressure limit that the sporting length chamber will handle Frank
	« Last Edit: Feb 11^th, 2016 at 5:27pm by frnkeore »
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens Reply #1 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 4:14pm	Print Post
	Now, about the firing pin arrangement: It came to light, when I got the idea of making a dual FP, out of a CF breech block, that the case would bulge so, this is what I did I used a 5/32 EM and cut across the FP hole, to a width of .280 (22rf, rim dia). I made a FP blank to fit that recess and cut it even with the BB face. I then set it up and cut twin FP's .040 with x 90 deg and .040 deep, leaving a circluar area in the center. You should be able to make that out in the picture. It was very hard to take w/o taking the BB out The shank of the FP is also 5/32 and I put a brass bushing in the back of the FP hole, to support it in the .20 diameter FP hole. I've now fired at least 250 rounds and no problems have occured. I've not had one miss fire, either. I'm including pictures of the fired cases, with the higher pressure loads and factory Federal 510's. One other thing that I did was make the head space at .040, instead of .043 of the cartridge rim. The reason for that is, because the 44 BB closes from the rear of the case (not sliding up like a LW) it captures the rim, not letting it be able to move forward, at all. Those two thing, I hope will give better ignition on non target ammo. The following are pictures of the cases, bullets and the 3 sets of targets that I shot this week. As well as the .410, 5 shot group that I shot in 1990, that started all this. While these 10 shot groups won't win a match yet, it gives me a base to start from. The lee 225-55, is showing real promice. It cast .226 in 30/1. The Lyman's cast .227 and have been extra hard to BS. On the last target, I sized the 450 and 438, to .223 but, they didn't like it and had fins,. I had made the 438 into a PB and I had to scrape the fins off the back of it before shooting. You can see on the 450 that the rear band, push oneven in to the GC area. I didn't resize the Lee but, it and the 450, where shot w/o GC's. I'll make my no groove bullet a little longer and give it a elliptical nose. It cast the right size at .223. I also, will take .020 off the GC area on the lee mold. It shows the starting of tipping at 1.2 gr B'eye. I didn't chronograph any of these loads but, all the 1.5 gr loads, where subsonic. Another enteresting thing was the pulled Federal 510's, shot with the Fed powder charge, grouped pretty good, with 4 in one hole. The low shot was after forgetting to BS a bullet, then firing it. then shooting w/o cleaning and fouling. The lube, was finger rolled Javalina Schuetzen

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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens Reply #2 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 4:17pm	Print Post
	The Targets. The first is the .410, in 1990, the rest this week. The Eley Club and the Fed 510 (circled) where fixed, factory ammo. More about the lube, no grooves where filled, they were only rolled between my fingers, just getting the exterior surface wet with lube. I've never had any leading using this Javalina Schuetzen Lube (actually Smilley lube from 1994), Darr or Lee liquid Alox. You may not need ANY lube. I have to test that though. The bullets are as follows: 225438, .487 long, 43 gr 225450, .655 long, 49.5 gr Lee 225-55, .580 long, 56.0 gr ELCO, .562 long, 49.5 gr Frank Edit: After studing the holes in the last target, I found that I mismarked the Fed 510, fixed group (it was a 5 shot group) when I marked it at the range. I remarked it it reflect how large the 450 was.
	« Last Edit: Feb 12^th, 2016 at 2:40pm by frnkeore »
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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #3 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 8:40pm	Print Post
	Frank, Your thread here is one of the most enjoyable I've read in quite a good while. Many Thanks!!

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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chawk Full Member Offline Posts: 217 Location: Virginia Joined: Jan 29^th, 2014	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #4 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 8:58pm	Print Post
	Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Perhaps I missed it but are those targets at 100 or 200 yards?


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #5 - Feb 11^th, 2016 at 10:03pm	Print Post
	Thank you, BP chawk, all targets that I will shoot with this rifle and loading, will be at 100 yards. In my area and Spokane, we only shoot 100 yard matches. (ups, I forgot about the BR 50 match at Spokane) I have a lot more work to do. I have at least a few more powers to test, as well as pulling about 400 Wolf Match, to use the cases and powder. I'm hoping to find more bullets to test, also. Frank
	« Last Edit: Feb 12^th, 2016 at 1:57am by frnkeore »
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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2900 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #6 - Feb 12^th, 2016 at 1:43am	Print Post
	Most interesting, Frank. Been thinking about it all evening while the wife & I watched the Bernie & Hillary show. You can't lie about group size. Here are some thoughts: Test ammo: Never shot Federal, but I shoot Eley Club for gallery (50 feet & 25 yards) or for practice at 100. In my 5 LR rifles, Club is pretty much out of gas at 100. Have you tried any of the better stuff out of your test rifle? Maybe Lapua Midas+ or Eley Black? All you need are a couple of groups of each. Also, since this is a 14" twist barrel, have you tried the Aguila 60 grain load as a control? We might learn something from that. I have at least 1 box to contribute. Trials: Have you thought about BS any of the 60 grain Aguila bullets? Might be I could furnish some. Cases: I have pulled a bunch of .22 Short bullets & looked at several kinds of cases. I weighed them & looked at the priming. That was an education in itself. Depends on what you find inside, but you might decide to segregate by weight or the way primer compound is spread around. Please take notes & tell us what you find. I have a Waltz die and use the shell holder in my press and dykes to pull bullets. Bullets: Too many variables! The surface area of bullets w/ lube grooves is greater than the Elcos & is different for each design. If your fingers are like mine, there will be some lube that gets into the grooves no matter how careful you are. That won't be uniform & could even unbalance the bullet. I think you should start with the Elcos and do a bunch of tests with those before moving on. Matches: The Tuesday Afternoon Schuetzen Verein (Redwood Gun Club, Arcata CA) will switch to 100 & 200 yards when the winter gallery league is over. The annual Monica Lewinsky's 50th birthday match is 50 rounds from the bench at 100 yards. We use the WSU gallery target, 2 shots at each of 25 bulls. We're flexible on scheduling. In early June, we shoot the Left Coast Bruce Garbe Memorial bench rest match. 50 shots at 200 yards. .22 rimfire only.


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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1181 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #7 - Feb 12^th, 2016 at 12:31pm	Print Post
	great read, keep it coming art


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #8 - Feb 12^th, 2016 at 1:58pm	Print Post
	waterman wrote on Feb 12^th, 2016 at 1:43am: Test ammo: Never shot Federal, but I shoot Eley Club for gallery (50 feet & 25 yards) or for practice at 100. In my 5 LR rifles, Club is pretty much out of gas at 100. Have you tried any of the better stuff out of your test rifle? Maybe Lapua Midas+ or Eley Black? All you need are a couple of groups of each. Also, since this is a 14" twist barrel, have you tried the Aguila 60 grain load as a control? We might learn something from that. I have at least 1 box to contribute. Trials: Have you thought about BS any of the 60 grain Aguila bullets? Might be I could furnish some. I have some Wolf Match that I'll try, both fixed and BSed. I'd be happy to try anything you have. As far as shooting the 60 grain Aguila bullets BSed, I think they would be to damaged after pulling Cases: I have pulled a bunch of .22 Short bullets & looked at several kinds of cases. I weighed them & looked at the priming. That was an education in itself. Depends on what you find inside, but you might decide to segregate by weight or the way primer compound is spread around. Please take notes & tell us what you find. I have a Waltz die and use the shell holder in my press and dykes to pull bullets That's a good idea but, at this point I'm just trying to find the accurate bullet and powder to start with, starting wit CCI cases There is so much to do and combo's to try. Bullets: Too many variables! The surface area of bullets w/ lube grooves is greater than the Elcos & is different for each design. If your fingers are like mine, there will be some lube that gets into the grooves no matter how careful you are. That won't be uniform & could even unbalance the bullet. I think you should start with the Elcos and do a bunch of tests with those before moving on It's not hard to get the lube on evenly. There is only a coating on my fingers and it only adheres to the surface of the bullet, the coating on my fingers isn't enough to get into the grooves, at all. I will always test against my ELCO and at this point, the Lee. My next thing with the ELCO is to put a elliptical nose on it to increase the BC for subsonic. I believe that I've found the best length for the bullets, at .56, for now anyway I'd love to come down to a shoot. Ferndale is one of my favorite places to visit, also. I'll see what I can do.

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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #9 - Apr 25^th, 2016 at 3:07am	Print Post
	Part two: I've now got a little more shooting done with this rifle. I have shot it in two matches and finally got some chrono info. The first match (3/26) wasn't horrible but, it wasn't very competitive with a 235 1c (ASSRA). It was about what you can expect with a target rifle, shooting standard velocity, fixed, domestic ammo. Saturdays match (4/23) was much better. It shot all 24's and 25's but, had one score killing 22. The March score had five 23's in it. My April, ASSRA score was 242 4c and it scored 244 6c, ISSA. The conditions were tricky today and there were three 245 5c (ISSA) shot with some of the most competitive 22 RF rifles, on the West coast! I'm a big dissenter regard ISSA scoring. ISSA had their reasons for doing it that way (leaded edge) but, it really doesn't give a accurate score. I tried to re-instate ASSRA scoring at our club but, was out voted at this match. Now the best part of the match was, scored ASSRA I would have had, 242 4c, second place (third ISSA) was 241 3c and first place ISSA would have scored only 240 3c. So, now, I'm off to a good basic starting point Next month, I will have much more info, regarding how it scores. I'll be shooting a 240 shot 22 RF match. As it stands, B'Eye is still the most accurate powder. The 14 twist is a little slow for my .56 long, 53 gr bullet. It doesn't tip at 1.7 gr but, shows a little tipping at 1.5 & 1.6. I used 1.6 gr in this last match and you can see some some slight tipping on some of the holes. The March match was shot with 1.5 gr. I'm not sure that the increased accuracy is a result of the 1.6 gr charge or, if it's because I sized the bullets from .225, to .223. I did that, because it was to hard to BS at .225. My groove is a standard 22 RF at .222. As I said, I'm only getting acceptable accuracy with B'Eye. Last Wed. I tested Ramshot Silhouette and TiteGroup. Nothing near as good as B'Eye but, I found that I could get a ave 1329 fps with my 53 gr bullet, using 2.5 gr Silhouette. The B'Eye load that I chronographed was 1.7 gr. I used both CCI & Fiocchi cases with the following results: Fiocchi 1.7 gr, Ave 1170 fps High 1183 Low 1138 ES 45 SD 15.5 Ave Divation 10.6 CCI 1.7 gr, Ave 1167 High 1173 Low 1151 ES 43 SD 13.5 Ave D 10.6 I only used the CCI cases at the match and those will be my standard cases. I want to keep these loads subsonic, like the match ammo is, for the added wind drift advantage, and that is why I choose the 1.6 gr load Frank
	« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2016 at 11:09am by frnkeore »
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #10 - May 30^th, 2016 at 6:15pm	Print Post
	As promised, these are my Spokane results. Things have improved overall. It may only be that the barrel is getting broke in. In all, there have now been 160 shots, fired in matches, plus maybe and other 150 in working up loads and sighters. The first two targets are from the Canadian Regional. As I remember, those where the worse conditions. I didn't get a picture of these match results so, I can't say how well I did in the match but, I believe it was mid-pack. The second two targets are from the NW Regional and the best conditions of the matches, I did get a picture of those results, I was exactly in the middle 11th of 22 shooters. There was a lot of expensive 22 match ammo below where I shot. Note, that there is one low shot in both of the NW targets. I'm sure thats a product of the load. Frank

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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #11 - May 30^th, 2016 at 6:22pm	Print Post
	Next the compete resuts of the 100 shot Canadian BR Match. I didn't get a picture of those match results, either so, again, I don't know where I finished. Again, I think it was mid-pack, the conditions weren't the best. Frank

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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #12 - May 30^th, 2016 at 6:24pm	Print Post
	Second 50 shots. Note how consistant the scores are in this one. Frank

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kcajeel Full Member Offline Posts: 170 Location: Manistee, Mi. Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #13 - Dec 7^th, 2016 at 12:26am	Print Post
	The annual Monica Lewinsky's 50th birthday match is 50 rounds from the bench at 100 yards. Can you describe what the Monica Match is for us? I"m thinking I might be able to arrange a road trip for our club, here in Michigan, to come and compete in this outing. Thanks, Kcajeel [/quote]

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jhm Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1869 Location: georgia Joined: Sep 4^th, 2011	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #14 - Dec 7^th, 2016 at 7:15pm	Print Post
	Beautiful rifle and a LOT of research. Do you thing there would be much difference if you had a forearm on it?


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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2900 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #15 - Dec 8^th, 2016 at 3:23am	Print Post
	Kcajeel, The Monica Lewinsky match is benchrest, 22 rimfires at 100 yards. We use the red WSU 50-ft gallery target, with 6 bulls on an 8.5x11 piece of card stock paper. This is the same target as the ASSRA gallery target. The targets are stapled to backers on our club's 100-yard range. Each competitor shoots 5 targets for score, shooting 2 shots at each bull, 10 shots for score. Max score is 1250 with 50 centers. Shooters can put up as many targets as they desire. Some guys put up all 5 at once. I prefer 2 at a time, side by side. There is no set pattern or way. With practice, our scores are about the same as our best offhand scores shot during the winter league. The bulls are so small that it is effectively a scopes-only match. We have 2 classes; traditional single shots and any rifle. Our range is about 300 yards from the beach and faces south. Wind is normally a factor, as is mirage. We are very flexible as to when we hold the match. It appears on the Redwood Gun Club match schedule and we have Tuesdays reserved, but we work around the time & calendar demands of competitors. We're all local, phone calls & e-mails can arrange things pretty easily. It is a really long drive from Michigan to the Pacific Ocean. If you came, we would arrange at least one more match (200 yard benchrest?) or maybe two. Maybe we could get the State of Jefferson guys to drive down. Tourism is a big deal here. There is plenty for the Missus to do.


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #16 - Dec 8^th, 2016 at 11:36pm	Print Post
	I used to shoot that target at 100 yds at Tacoma when we had the Icicle 22 RF match in February. We haven't had the Icicle for several years due to lack of cold weather shooters

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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #17 - Dec 10^th, 2016 at 12:13pm	Print Post
	Would you gentlemen please explain how you are "pulling" the bullets from factory cases and processing them for your reloading. I several methods and have used them on occasionally but not for rimfire ammunition. One of the major factors in experimenting with the 22rf rounds is the issue of primed case availability. the concept interests me and I have tried to follow most of the threads and posts whenever this has come up. I personally would be a bit concerned for the safety aspects. Since purchasing empty but primed 22 rf ammo is no longer a possibility, "pulling" bullets safely seems to only way the rest of us can get cases.

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jy3855 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 368 Location: California Joined: Jul 13^th, 2015	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #18 - Dec 10^th, 2016 at 2:02pm	Print Post
	Shouldn't a Monica Lewinski match be shot from under the bench? Sorry, I couldn't help myself.


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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2900 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #19 - Dec 10^th, 2016 at 2:14pm	Print Post
	My adventures in pulling .22 rimfire bullets have usually resulted in damaged bullets. I have not tried an impact puller. That seems like asking for trouble. I thought the breech-seated bullets were cast, not the factory ones. A few years back, one of the smaller companies (the outfit from the Philippines) made up packages of primed cases. A few guys on this Forum bought them, including me. Perhaps that could happen again.


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #20 - Dec 10^th, 2016 at 2:23pm	Print Post
	QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2016 at 12:13pm: Would you gentlemen please explain how you are "pulling" the bullets from factory cases and processing them for your reloading. I several methods and have used them on occasionally but not for rimfire ammunition. One of the major factors in experimenting with the 22rf rounds is the issue of primed case availability. the concept interests me and I have tried to follow most of the threads and posts whenever this has come up. I personally would be a bit concerned for the safety aspects. Since purchasing empty but primed 22 rf ammo is no longer a possibility, "pulling" bullets safely seems to only way the rest of us can get cases. Wayne, I did thread about 2, or so years ago, of how I pull bullets. It,s simple. I made a shell holder that I hold in my left hand, then with pliers, I twist the bullet to my right and it comes right out. I save both the powder and bullets. I can re-post the pictures later, if you like. I'm on my phone right now. Frank
	« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2019 at 1:07pm by frnkeore »
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #21 - Dec 10^th, 2016 at 2:29pm	Print Post
	jhm wrote on Dec 7^th, 2016 at 7:15pm: Beautiful rifle and a LOT of research. Do you thing there would be much difference if you had a forearm on it? Johnny, I don't think so but, I will try it this year. I'm actually suppose to have one when I shoot ISSA matches.. Frank
	« Last Edit: Dec 10^th, 2016 at 4:50pm by frnkeore »
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #22 - Dec 10^th, 2016 at 4:57pm	Print Post
	Wayne, I'm home now. Here are the pictures of taking the bullets out of the cases. It goes as fast as you can pick the cartridge up, put it in the shell holder and twist the pliers. Frank

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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2900 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #23 - Dec 10^th, 2016 at 5:31pm	Print Post
	I'll have to try that with pliers. I have a shell holder for 22 RF, but have used it in my C press, holding the bullets. They come out, but marred. I tried dykes. Just hold the bullet and pull the press handle down. Still marred the bullets.


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QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #24 - Dec 12^th, 2016 at 8:22pm	Print Post
	obviously the bullets are not for reuse, except for adding to the lead melt-down collection. I was wondering how they were secured so as not to set off the priming while working with it.

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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #25 - Dec 12^th, 2016 at 10:09pm	Print Post
	They are secured in the shell holder. After that, I put them in a cci mini mag container. I've pulled a few thousand that way. They only seem to go off after being struck with the firing pin. Frank

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jy3855 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 368 Location: California Joined: Jul 13^th, 2015	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #26 - Dec 15^th, 2016 at 6:19pm	Print Post
	I have pulled several hundred RF 22 Mag bullets with an inertial puller using a washer that just fits the body and fully supports the rim for 360 degrees. I've never had one go off while pulling, but of course, I can't guarantee others will have the same good fortune.


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #27 - Dec 15^th, 2016 at 10:53pm	Print Post
	I don't pull bullets because I lucked out buying primed empty Aqula cases that are not available any more. But I reload 22LR's with black powder and smokeless. Might be interested in the latest writeup ... (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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Baja_Traveler Participating Member Offline Posts: 33 Location: San Diego Joined: Feb 11^th, 2011	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #28 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 3:42pm	Print Post
	I was in on the empty case buy that John Boy alerted me to way back - I also have been using them to load black powder loads using the Mohs heeled bullet mold we had made. In fact, the Hunting Shack (where we purchased our primed cases) sold them for this exact reason, but I guess the schuetzen guys who breech seat faded away so they would not support the large order required to get more when they ran out. Now that I've gotten caught up in schuetzen I'd like to try breech seating for the rimfire also. My question is what tool are you using to breech seat the bullet? Just a push rod, or something more sophisticated?


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #29 - Dec 21^st, 2016 at 6:39pm	Print Post
	Baja_Traveler wrote on Dec 21^st, 2016 at 3:42pm: Now that I've gotten caught up in schuetzen I'd like to try breech seating for the rimfire also. My question is what tool are you using to breech seat the bullet? Just a push rod, or something more sophisticated? Yes, it is, pretty much a push rod. I set the depth, using the Russ Weber method. 1. Put the bullet in backward 2. Measure from the back of the barrel, to the bullet nose 3. Add the bullet length to the #2 measurement 4. Make your seater to that length I make mine out of 3/8 brass rod. They BS easy as long as the bullet isn't over .001 larger than he groove diameter. I shoot off the bench, throwing each charge into the case before chambering it. The little round thing is the adapter I use so, I can use the powder measure with the 30 cal spout. Shooting that way, I can easily, load and shoot 10 shots in 20 min. The ISSA time limit. Frank
	« Last Edit: Mar 28^th, 2019 at 1:11pm by frnkeore »
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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4159 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #30 - Jan 2^nd, 2017 at 7:46pm	Print Post
	Anyone tried these 22 blanks? (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)


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tim_s Oldtimer Offline Posts: 822 Location: 13066 Joined: Oct 11^th, 2006	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #31 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 7:45pm	Print Post
	Frank, Lost track of this thread awhile ago but got back on track again. You might want to look at one very important component of your process. For what it's worth, I would take a hard look at your firing pin protrusion. You appear to have extremely light hits and even with 2 pins are resulting in less than optimum ignition.

	“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #32 - Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 11:42pm	Print Post
	Tim, The firing pins rebound, I think that's why your seeing them as light. Ive fired more than 1000 rounds now w/o a mis or hang fire. Oneatatime, I looked one Midways site and I couldn't find any for sale. Frank

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tim_s Oldtimer Offline Posts: 822 Location: 13066 Joined: Oct 11^th, 2006	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #33 - Jan 5^th, 2017 at 8:51pm	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Jan 3^rd, 2017 at 11:42pm: Tim, The firing pins rebound, I think that's why your seeing them as light. Ive fired more than 1000 rounds now w/o a mis or hang fire. Oneatatime, I looked one Midways site and I couldn't find any for sale. Frank Rebounding pins are fine, case crush from pins are telling. Consistant fire does not tell you much. The difference between going bang and optimum is wider than you might think and is the subject of countless tests in the rimfire benchrest world as well as suppliers of match ammunition such as ELEY. Countless numbers of benchrests agree on one thing, and I have tuned more than a few actions.....you want ignition/pin strike to aproach the rim closing upon ignition for the most consistant ignition. A pin may rebound, a pin print into a case will not. With all the trouble you take with this.....a simple experiment to try??? .

	“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #34 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 12:04am	Print Post
	Quote: a simple experiment to try??? Do you have a suggestion? Frank

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tim_s Oldtimer Offline Posts: 822 Location: 13066 Joined: Oct 11^th, 2006	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #35 - Jan 7^th, 2017 at 3:30pm	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Jan 7^th, 2017 at 12:04am: Quote: a simple experiment to try??? Do you have a suggestion? Frank Sure. The double pin probably doesn't do anything for you, put a single pin replacement in there to test for somewhere around .024"-.027" protrusion and test. You want the rim edge closed, not crushed. More pin is better, you can trim it back as needed.

	“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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gnoahhh Oldtimer Offline Posts: 989 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Joined: Mar 31^st, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #36 - Sep 19^th, 2025 at 10:19pm	Print Post
	Pulling up an old thread. Has anybody pursued this during these past years?


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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4159 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #37 - Sep 20^th, 2025 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	I have a question, too. 8 years ago, why did I even ask it? Was I thinking about loading them with BP?


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7514 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Breech Seating a 44 Stevens 22rf Reply #38 - Sep 21^st, 2025 at 1:38am	Print Post
	In the turn of the last century, it was done and may have been, some what common, as you could purchase bullet molds and primed bras, at that time. For the life of me, I don't understand why the BP guys don't require it or at least promote it.

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