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SBoomer
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Lead hardness starting point?
Feb 8th, 2016 at 6:32pm
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In preparation for starting to work up breech-seated loads for my 25-21 Hepburn, where do I start for lead hardness? 

My intent for starters is smokeless. I have several of the old Ideal 25cal molds including two in the Perfection series. With nearly 3 feet of snow in the woods, I am cabin bound for a while and want to start casting up a matrix of bullets in both design and hardness(alloy). Any and all suggestions are welcome. The Shilen barrel is 26" with a 1:10 twist from CPA. My hope was to shoot bullets in the 100-120gr range, though both Perfections go up to 140. Thank you. MikeC
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #1 - Feb 8th, 2016 at 10:27pm
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I would start at 20:1.
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #2 - Feb 9th, 2016 at 9:08am
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I"m Also shooting 20:1 with a Mos 120 grain bullet.

40 Rod
  
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SBoomer
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #3 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 10:49am
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20:1 it is! 

I have (5) molds set up to cast with this afternoon. High of about 5deg here today, so perfect for a day inside pouring lead!

Ideal 25720   96gr
Ideal 257283 85gr
Ideal 257285 88gr
Ideal 25716   100, 110, 120, 130gr (Perfection mold)
Ideal 25717   137gr

  
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frnkeore
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #4 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 11:17am
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I think I would start out with these three:

Ideal 25720   96gr
Ideal 25716   100, 110, 120, 130gr (Perfection mold) Set at 110 and 120

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Fred Boulton
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #5 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 11:32am
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Leading indicates that your bullet dia is too small. Going to a softer bullet, rather than a harder one, may allow the bullet to set up as it leaves the chamber and the leading will stop. It all depends on how undersized your bullet is.
Fred
  
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #6 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 5:02pm
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Old WRA cataologs before WWI show they commonly used 20:1 for many Winchester ammunition lead bullet loadings, and 40:1 is also frequently shown.
  
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SBoomer
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #7 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 6:05pm
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I did not get a chance to cast today. USPS tracking shows my Ideal 257231(111gr) might be here tomorrow. The mold looked good in the pics so maybe I will get lucky and it will just need a little cleanup. It is built into an Ideal loading tool of which I have never cast from.
  
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bpjack
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #8 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 7:13pm
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SBoomer,

I have a Hoch mold on the way from CPA rifles.  It is tapered for breach seating.  Someone on this list send me a few samples over a year ago that would not stabilize in my 14 twist Stevens.  I kept a few and just tried them in my new 10 twist 25-20 WCF.  They shot well so I ordered a mold which was shipped on Tuesday.  I hope the mold shows up this week.  If you want, I will send you a few in 20-1 to try out no charge.

Jack
  
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #9 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 8:23pm
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SBoomer, notice the reply's you get are mostly in Alloy mix. 20/1 40/1 Etc. This is experience talking to you. Now Some of them may be using 20/1 hardness as a reference, I do not know. But a hardness figure using a Mechanical tester does not take into account Chemistry of the Alloy. A pure hardness test can lead you astray. Where as a pure Alloy mix can always be reproduced. There are mixes that can be the same as say 20/1 
but will not shoot well or at all. And when you get into Black Powder shooting can make you crazy. I would suggest you take the time to find quantities of Pure Lead and Tin and then you will at least have a good reproducible Alloy. I do agree that many shoot Alloys that are a mix of everything and do well. Too many  down the road and that batch is used up and they are not sure of whats in it. Just a suggestion, HTH Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  
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SBoomer
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #10 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 9:12pm
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BPjack, is it the Hoch 258-105 tapered? If so, I have it and have quite a supply already cast in 20:1. Thank you for the offer.

Fitz,
I have pure lead and tin from rotometals for this endeavor. I have been hoarding lead and pewter for years, way before the general populace knew that pewter was for the most part tin. I am glad to see lead coming back down.
  
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Re: Lead hardness starting point?
Reply #11 - Feb 10th, 2016 at 11:26pm
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Yep it is that mold.  Looks real promising in my Low Wall.

Jack
  
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