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moodyholler
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Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Feb 2nd, 2016 at 4:20pm
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Came across this one and wondered what you all thought of the unusual combination of features and the rollmark. Please note cadet style action, crescent butt plate, rear sight on breech block, 32 rimfire caliber, trigger guard, rear sight and rollmark. What is this. Thanks, moodyholler

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moodyholler
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #1 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 4:23pm
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Notice the "S" on REMINTON. I have never seen anything like this. Also only two patent dates. No stampings on action. Thanks, moodyholler

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moodyholler
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #2 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 4:25pm
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moodyholler
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #3 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 4:26pm
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marlinguy
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 4:45pm
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The Remington Cadet and Boy Scout rifles were all long round barrels, and since they are late guns, the rollstamp would be either "Remington Arms Co.", "Remington Arms Co. Ilion, NY", "Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge Co.", or just "Remington"
The #2 was quite different, and it used "Remington's Ilion N.Y. U.S.A." on their barrel during the first two variations. And the same patent dates as shown on your gun. But I suspect someone copied that rollstamp on your barrel, as they got it cocked at an angle when stamping it.
They also had straight lines on the receiver top and bottom, not the odd curves that your "rolling block" has. The odd lines, misprinted/cocked rollstamp, and weird trigger guard, tell me your gun may be a knock off done as some were in either China, or Khyber Pass. Or maybe some back room in Pakistan. It sure doesn't look like anything Remington ever made.
Does it have a bottom tang also, or just a top tang like a #4, Cadet, or Boy Scout?

PS-Rear sight on the breechblock was used on Rolling Block pistols, but don't believe I've ever seen that on a rifle.
  

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moodyholler
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #5 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 5:02pm
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Vall action is larger than #4 and appears size of #2. Has lower tang. Sure is an interesting rifle and is well made for a Middle Eastern copy. moodyholler
  
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Marlene
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 8:37pm
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A pistol action crudely converted to a rifle using No2 barrel and stock?
  
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BP
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #7 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:51pm
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Looks like the barrel was once full octagon and later turned to part octagon without bothering to match the normal Remington barrel profile transition.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #8 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:57pm
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Not a Rolling Block pistol action. The Rolling Block pistols have scalloped frames like the #2, and not shaped like Moodyholler's rifle. Lots of other differences also.
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Well I've seen some of the Khyber Pass large frame Martinis that were excellent copies, and looked like they were made in a factory. They usually make a mistake somewhere on the markings, like getting a date incorrect, or misspelling something.
I've looked through every Rolling Block reference I have, in hopes of seeing some prototype, or a Swede variant, etc. I can't find anything close to your gun. That trigger guard and trigger are even more puzzling than the odd receiver shape. They almost look as if they were done at a later date than the receiver?
One other question comes to mind. Are the front and rear dovetails standard 3/8"? Remingtons of that era used dovetails that were both smaller, and larger than the other makers 3/8" dovetails.
  

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BP
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:11pm
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Vall,

Take a look at pictures of the Remington Model 1865 Navy Rolling Block Pistol (these had spur triggers), and the Remington Model 1867 Navy Rolling Block Pistol (with bow trigger guards).
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #10 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:55pm
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BP wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:11pm:
Vall,

Take a look at pictures of the Remington Model 1865 Navy Rolling Block Pistol (these had spur triggers), and the Remington Model 1867 Navy Rolling Block Pistol (with bow trigger guards).


Right you (and Marlene!) are! It does indeed look like the 1865-67 Rolling Block pistols! Maybe someone straightened the top tang, and then built a completely new lower trigger plate/tang.
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 3:54pm
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Next question is are there any of the Remington factory markings on the action frame, or is it a knock-off copy of that particular Remington design?
  

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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #12 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 7:31pm
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No markings on the frame of any kind, moodyholler
  
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Re: Interesting Rolling Block With Unusual Rollmark
Reply #13 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 7:20pm
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The Remington's stamping proceeded E. Remington & Sons. The original 1867 Danish contract is marked Remington's as are the first Swedish contract (1867) and the round top rim fire sporting model rifles of that period.  The receiver and upper internals on the rifle in question are undoubtedly the 65/67 Navy pistol design. Trigger guard etc are nothing I have ever seen.
  
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