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MartiniBelgian
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30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Jan 24th, 2016 at 1:18pm
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I gave the barrel a 'superclean', and unfortunately had to come to the conclusion that it is all but optimal - quite a bit of damage in the bore.
Nevertheless, she'll shoot quite well: 10 shots at 82yds prone, with sling, unsupported.  Yes, that ragged hole holds 6 shots...   I know I pulled at least 2 other shots.

The load is 8.2 grs of  Swiss 1 1/2 Fg, charged uncompressed in a case, with an overpowder wad.
The lubed bullet 5alloy 1:16) is pushed into the chamber, the case follows and shoves the bullet into the rifling.

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No scope, just aperture sights.  Hmmm, imagine what she'll do with a perfect bore....
  
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2016 at 3:43pm
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What/why is the bore damaged? What kind of damage?

Can we see the rifle and bullets you shoot? Coat? Hard back? Sling?   

Martoony rifle?

          Joe.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2016 at 9:01pm
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From the tipping in the fliers, it looks like you can use a bit more velocity. Maybe a 2 gr boost of  smokeless?

Frank
  

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #3 - Jan 25th, 2016 at 2:19pm
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There's a bit of a bulge - hardly noticeable in the 1st third of the brrel, and it looks like a bullet got stuck there once - damaged lands, scratches,...
Meaning she leads, and needs a frequent clean to get rid of the accumulated leading.
And extra velocity - I might gain some 10-15 fps, but as it's a BP only proposition...

Joe,

Shooting jacket?  What's that?  I do use a shooting glove and an old paker-Hale 2-point sling, in the spirit of the original.  And of course it's my little 12/15 Martini with 308 barrel, all of its 9 pounds.  Parker-Hale Apertures front and rear.
  
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #4 - Jan 25th, 2016 at 2:30pm
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Thanks.


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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #5 - Jan 25th, 2016 at 3:04pm
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What are the approximate muzzle velocities and chamber pressures of the two BP loads you have tried so far?? What is weight of "Pope Bullet"?

I have a 32-20 with approximate 13:1 twist and am interested to try some heavier than 115gr bullets with BP or some nitro powder giving even less chamber pressure. Need to find load not exceeding SAMMI chamber pressures. Can be either fixed or bore seated load.

Thanks,
Grisen
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #6 - Jan 26th, 2016 at 12:02am
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Pope 308403, weight 171 grs in my - fairly hard - alloy.   You can get a mould at Accurate moulds.  Shouldn't be an issue with a 1:13 twist, my rifle has 1:15.  Pressures?  good question, I'd presume below 12,000 psi with Swiss 1 1/2 fg.   I'm guesstimating the MV at around 1065 fps, so subsonic with this little case.  The bullet is bore seated, but not breechseated with a seating tool.  I also designed another bullet I shoot in this rifle which weighs 151 grs.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #7 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 2:54am
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FWIW, this rifle is the 'mule' or guinea pig - the intention is to build aBP match rifle for the round.  I'm seriously considering going with a 1 in 12 twist, polygonal rifling barrel from Lothar Walther.    OTOH, they have a larger choice in traditionally-rifled barrels, with 1 in 10, 11,12 and 14 being available.  That 14" twist is also tempting...
The final rifle will of course use the same action (BSA small martini action) and BSA sights (no. 8 tang sight at the rear, the original Parker-hale aperture front)
  
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #8 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 10:34am
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I know that there has been lots of discussion about twist rates and how faster twists are not really necessary for the .32's.,  but I would not hestitate at all going a little quicker than 1:14. 

I say this not because I'm a ballistics expert, but because I have a number of .32-40's with 1:14 twist.  They will all tip bullets to some degree at 220 yards when loaded with black powder when shooting in cold weather.  My 1:14 and 1:15 twist .38-55's never tip even with Fg in cold weather.  I haven't tried a little quicker twist, but if I did I'd probably want one of the Ron Smith barrels with quicker twist that ShuetzenDave has written about.  I don't remember what the twist was, but it was more than 1:14.  I like RKS barrels.

Chris.
  
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #9 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 10:56am
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I've shot a 14 twist, Douglas, .308 barrels since 1987. They will shoot a bullet, at least 1.2 long (longest I have), in the 1400 fps range (haven't tried slower). My Bo Clerke, 14 twist .308, will also. I had Ron, make a 13 twist for me but, that was so I can shoot a bullet longer than 1.2.

I also have a .308 12 twist by A&M in AZ and one thing I noticed about it, was that the accuracy came at a lower velocity, 1300 as oposed to 1400+ fps.

Based on the velocity that MartiniBelgian is getting, I would suggest a 10 or 12 twist.

Regarding the 32 cal 11 1/2 twist RKS barrels, I've seen them tip at least once, at the Spokane shoot. Might have been the cold but, it could have been that it got in the transonic range or maybe a weird wind?

Frank


  

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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #10 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 11:37am
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Thank you Frank.  That is very interesting to hear.   

Chris.
  
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #11 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 11:40am
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The goal of this rifle iis to develop a competitive BP target rifle for short range - 100, 200m - if possible, 300.  I'm designing the bullet/load combination to stay subsonic all the way, trying to optimize ES in order to compensate.   Which is why the relatively heavy for calibre/case (for BP at least) bullet, and the relatively small case capacity.   Goal is to minimize wind drift while upping the BC in order to be able to reach out as far as possible with accuracy.
1st trials have been pretty encouraging, getting pretty consistent MV's - and accuracy too, in spite of the leading issues.
The reason I'm looking at the polygonal barrel is to minimize fouling accumulation - no sharp corners should help there.  Of course a bit a step in the dark, but....
« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2016 at 11:54am by MartiniBelgian »  
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #12 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 11:55am
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I've played a bit with subsonic in my wifes 30/20 but, with smokeless. What I found with her rifle (Douglas 12 twist) is that at subsonic, a 1.06 long bullet was tipping @ 100. I have a lot more subsonic testing to do with her rifle.

Frank
  

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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #13 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 2:04pm
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Frank,

The Pope bullet I'm currently testing is .950 long,  and yes, some minor tipping is apparent.   Still, it does seem to be accurate.  The other bullet I'm using is 151gr and perfectly stabilized at .895 long with my 1 in 15 twist.   So here's me hoping that a 1 in 12 should be ample to keep both stable at 1060 - 1100 fps.
Maybe I should also try a softer alloy with these small charges.
  
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Re: 30-20 BP testing continues - Pope bullet
Reply #14 - Jan 27th, 2016 at 3:16pm
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Martini Belgium,
It is reported that the Polygonal barrels in Glock pistols do Poorly with cast bullets..........
So, I would consider  carefully about such a barrel for your 30-20.  How about trying a 5R from Obermeyer or Krieger. These have beveled sides to the lands.   
I hope to get back to working with my 8.5 twist Obermeyer 5R barreled 30 USA this season.  Have some long bullets to work with:  311284,  NOE 311-247gr,  308281 stopring. 311299.
etc. 
beltfed/arnie

  
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