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200 yard cartridge advice sought (Read 17486 times)

SSShooter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2917 Location: Southern NJ Joined: Aug 1^st, 2010	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #45 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 1:23pm	Print Post
	boats wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 1:14pm: Thinking about it, when Schuetzen shooters looked for modern solutions to the 200 yard target they went to 357 Magnum pistol cases sized to 32 Caliber Barrel twist and bullets to suit 200 yard rifle work. No reason you could not do the same in over 40 using the .44 Magnum pistol case. Take the 32 Miller concept and blow it up to 40 caliber. Boats Boats - Let us know how it turns out (though you might want to start with the .460 S&W case). Another thought is the 'other' 38-40, the 38-40 Rem. If I did not all ready have the 32-40 barrel I think that is what I would build as my 'next' 200yd rifle.

	Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #46 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 3:05pm	Print Post
	boats wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 1:14pm: No reason you could not do the same in over 40 using the .44 Magnum pistol case. Take the 32 Miller concept and blow it up to 40 caliber. Back to 38/40 & 44/40. They have never done much in Lever Silhouette . With its 56 lb 200 meter Ram target. Reason is Lever silhouette you are required to cycle the cartridge through the magazine restricting bullet weight and re-barreling is not allowed. Have to shoot as built. No doubt in a single shot rifle only rule "over 40" either could perform well. Boats Good points! I would likely stay with 44-40 cases instead of 44Mag. Basically same as going to 30-20 or 32-20CPA from 32-20 brass. In tight chambers both 44-40 and 32-20 brass can be long lasting, even well over 25.000 psi. Regarding unmodified leverguns -- there are a couple of old designs for heavier 44-40 bullets (20-40gr heavier, depending on mould and alloy) that still cycle through standard repeaters. One is 429215 but I cannot find other one. Both shoot as good or smaller groups as Lyman/Ideal 42798, the 205 gr bullet that helped make 44-40's excellent reputation long ago. Actual weight of these bullets seems quite variable, either because of variations in or modifications of moulds. Both often shoot small groups in rifles and revolvers in solid condition. Presume there were/are similar bullets for 38-40. Grisen


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3547 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #47 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 3:35pm	Print Post
	Back in my IHMSA days (pistol silhouette), we shot lots of pistol-sized calibers at 200 meter rams. My personal choice was .41 magnum, and it's still a good one. Those cartridges were often stoked to the ragged edge I'll confess, but even the meager .357 mag would do a creditable job in a good shooter's hands. If I built a rifle for the job, I'd feel fine with one of these. If it dealt with the problem in a handgun, it'd do a little better in a rifle, don't ya suppose?


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #48 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 4:30pm	Print Post
	calledflyer wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 3:35pm: Back in my IHMSA days (pistol silhouette), we shot lots of pistol-sized calibers at 200 meter rams. My personal choice was .41 magnum, and it's still a good one. Those cartridges were often stoked to the ragged edge I'll confess, but even the meager .357 mag would do a creditable job in a good shooter's hands. If I built a rifle for the job, I'd feel fine with one of these. If it dealt with the problem in a handgun, it'd do a little better in a rifle, don't ya suppose? You just put a bullet hole through some folk's fun with a 40cal Gee Whizz Schuetzen wildcat cartridge!! Grisen


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 864 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #49 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 4:40pm	Print Post
	When I read the OP my thoughts were that of building a over. .40 class target rifle and the 38/40 has a lot going for it when used in a strong action. The cost would be the custom chamber reamer as well as a custom barrel with the correct twist. The OP has the action and the need for a barrel so with the reamer he could have the possibility of a game rifle, JMHO.


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 864 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #50 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 4:57pm	Print Post
	svartkruttgris#369 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 4:30pm: calledflyer wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 3:35pm: Back in my IHMSA days (pistol silhouette), we shot lots of pistol-sized calibers at 200 meter rams. My personal choice was .41 magnum, and it's still a good one. Those cartridges were often stoked to the ragged edge I'll confess, but even the meager .357 mag would do a creditable job in a good shooter's hands. If I built a rifle for the job, I'd feel fine with one of these. If it dealt with the problem in a handgun, it'd do a little better in a rifle, don't ya suppose? You just put a bullet hole through some folk's fun with a 40cal Gee Whizz Schuetzen wildcat cartridge!! Grisen Another reason I was picking the 38/40 was the possibility of using the rifle in some of the 200 yard Buffalo matches the local clubs put on from time to time. All of them around here require period type cartridges and this little cartridge may be the ticket, at least my shoulder thinks so:-).


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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2257 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #51 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 5:41pm	Print Post
	Premod70 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 4:40pm: When I read the OP my thoughts were that of building a over. .40 class target rifle and the 38/40 has a lot going for it when used in a strong action. The cost would be the custom chamber reamer as well as a custom barrel with the correct twist. The OP has the action and the need for a barrel so with the reamer he could have the possibility of a game rifle, JMHO. He was also going to be using black powder. Are the pistol cartridges going to be competitive at that distance with BP? My only experience with a pistol cartridge and black powder is my .45 Colt lever gun. It doesn't hold vertical very consistently past 100m. Chris.


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 864 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #52 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 5:47pm	Print Post
	gunlaker wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 5:41pm: Premod70 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 4:40pm: When I read the OP my thoughts were that of building a over. .40 class target rifle and the 38/40 has a lot going for it when used in a strong action. The cost would be the custom chamber reamer as well as a custom barrel with the correct twist. The OP has the action and the need for a barrel so with the reamer he could have the possibility of a game rifle, JMHO. He was also going to be using black powder. Are the pistol cartridges going to be competitive at that distance with BP? My only experience with a pistol cartridge and black powder is my .45 Colt lever gun. It doesn't hold vertical very consistently past 100m. Chris. My bad, I've got smokeless on the brain. Thanks for bringing that up, in that case my vote is for the 40/65.


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3547 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #53 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 5:51pm	Print Post
	Don't know fer black powder- you may have something there if he's gotta use that stuff. I was only pointing out to the anti 'pistol' cartridge guys that they are about as potent as, say my .32-40 or thereabouts. After all, even in the black powder days they hunted with 'em and did pretty well if what we hear is true. I'm not trading in any rifles for one of 'em, just thought they could use a little more praise as well. I ain't gonna stand in front of Boats when he shoots his, even on a windy day!


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #54 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 7:07pm	Print Post
	gunlaker wrote on Jan 18^th, 2016 at 5:41pm: He was also going to be using black powder. Are the pistol cartridges going to be competitive at that distance with BP? My only experience with a pistol cartridge and black powder is my .45 Colt lever gun. It doesn't hold vertical very consistently past 100m. Chris. Look up postings by John Kort on Internet Discussion Boards, possibly on ASSRA. He has been doing research and test shooting of 44-40 BP loads matching original BP loads. There is a video somewhere of him knocking over pigs at 300M with 44-40 BP loads. Lots of 25KG rams at 200M have fallen to my 44-40 M92 carbine with 20" barrel. Load was Lyman 427098 205 gr bullet at 1300fps. That is original BP load ballistics from 24" rifle barrel. A good 44-40 levergun and shooter should get 200M groups of 10-15cm at 200M from bench, no wind. Grisen


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7540 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #55 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 7:24pm	Print Post
	I missed the Black Powder part completely . If Black powder and offhand I would probably build a 45 Colt, and a 44/40 would work just as well. Over 40 does not mean you have to use a 40 caliber . It's true Lever Silhouette 45 Colts don't do well at 200, I account it to the rifle not the cartridge. Most are on Winchesters. Bench rifle breech seated over 40 caliber either the 44 or 41 Magnum case depending on how each one looked necked down to 40 caliber. 41 would have less taper, a good thing This thread has been fun, lot of good ideas. And opinions Boats


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svartkruttgris#369 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2980 Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden Joined: Oct 28^th, 2014	Re: 200 yard cartridge advice sought Reply #56 - Jan 18^th, 2016 at 7:41pm	Print Post
	Here is link to John Kort video showing him shooting 300M pigs with 44-40 BP loads. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Enjoy, Grisen


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