Soft, brittle steel is a bit of an oxymoron.  Steel is either one or the other.

Civil War Ballards are indeed malleable iron. Says so right in the patent documentation.  And in fact that's the only way they could have been made economically, prior to the Bessemer revolution of the 1870s. (They could have been cast of crucible steel, but at a shocking price.)

Malleable iron is "white" cast iron that has been heat treated for days at 1500 degrees or so, packed in an oxidizing material. Crushed iron ore was a common material. The oxygen combined with the carbon and gassed off as carbon monoxide, pulling a lot of the flake graphite out of the metal, and converting most of the remaining flake into spheroids that don't take up so much space in the crystal matrix, leaving almost pure iron for the remainder.  (That's a very crude description of what the annealing process does.)  That's why the big hole under the barrel spigot.  The annealing process could only go so deep.  Because it took so long in the furnace to accomplish the annealing, the process burned an awful lot of fuel, to say the least, but it was the only practical way to make a cast ferrous part that would stand any shock.      

One thing about malleable iron parts.  They can be case hardened, but the process converts some of the annealed crystal structure back to plain old cast iron.  If a malleable iron frame were repeatedly case hardened, it will be significantly weaker.  Food for thought.

Now, I'm still more than a little convinced that, by the time Marlin took up making the Ballard, that it would have been possible to cast the actions of fluid steel.  That would have been much cheaper in that, not needing that long annealing period, the fuel cost would be much lower.   It would be fairly easy to tell in a microscopical metallurgy lab, and I've got an rough old #3 frame that I'd donate.  Anyone know someone with the requisite facilities?  I've been trying to rig up to do this myself, but I can't find nitric acid for sale in less than gallon size lots.  

Phil

marlinguy wrote on Jan 10^th, 2016 at 9:48am:


So did Jim Serven.  I really don't think they understood the difference between cast iron and malleable iron.  They both must have read the patent drawings, which clearly say malleable.   

It's quite possible that Marlin kept on with the original casting material, but the opportunity to cut cost by going to steel nags me.  I recently found an article by a metallurgist who analyzed gun metals from Civil War and onward.  He wrote that he found Bessemer steel in a Trapdoor.  Turns out that it's fairly easy to identify Bessemer, to the exclusion of all other forms, under a microscope.  Until very recently I've been believing that virtually all the 1870s Bessemer steel production went to rails, but it clearly wasn't so. The Panic of 1873 dropped rail production by 70%, so there would have been plenty of Bessemer steel available, and probably cheap, too.   

But it's all speculation until I can find either an ounce or two of nitric acid, or a metallurgical lab that is willing to do the study.

So far it seems that the consensus is that no one knows of a legitimate cast action failure. There are serious concerns based on materials. Marlin made the cast actions in 38-55, 32-40, 44-40.  So basically we have nothing but conjecture and personal risk vs reward.

It would be interesting to know if a Pacific in 44-40 was cast or forged.

Charles

Quote:


Yes, it sounds odd but, leaded, sulphured steels, exhibit that "quality". Soft steels are very malleable and have good elongation but, 1137, 1144 and anything with a L in the number aren't, especially in the cold. You WILL NOT find any L steels in stressed aircraft parts or in quality barrels.

There have been many catastrophic barrel failures with 12L14 and 1137/44. Muzzle loading (low pressure) had many failures in the early 80's when I shot that sport.

Frank

Friend of mine wanted to color harden a cast Ballard I had.  I let him.  He cracked it 

bohemianway wrote on Jan 10^th, 2016 at 10:37am:


No, Marlin never did build a cast frame Ballard in .32-40 or .38-55 that I've ever seen or heard of. But I've owned several in .44-40 on the #2 cast frame, and one in .44 Long CF.
Never heard of a Pacific in .44-40, or a cast frame Pacific, nor have I seen any. I have seen a #4 Perfection in .44-40 though, and it was done on a forged frame.

Oh no, Bob. It was Terry Savages Ballard. As I remember it was also engraved?

You missed a big event. The barrel was split from end to end, on one side and about 3/4 of the way on the other. It fell about 1 ft in front of the bench. The receiver ring hit the roof and then, hit chuck in the arm. The report was LOUD and everyone looked, because of that.

Terry was froze for about a 1/2 minute and it look like he didn't know what had happen. I'm not sure but, I think Chuck got to him first, I was about 4 bench to the left of him. I don't know where anyone else was when it happened, maybe Joe does.

Something you never forget!

Frank