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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sight Picture Problem/Question... (Read 11534 times)
Rek
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Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Dec 26th, 2015 at 6:27pm
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I have a particular situation with the sight picture I get with my aperture sight: a distortion occurs in the center of the aperture that blurs the front sight.  I'd describe it as a sort of a "whorl", a blurry spot in the center of the sight picture.
 
If I move my point of view so that I'm looking around the distorted area in the center, I can see the front sight in focus around the edge of the blurred area.

I have astigmatism and my optometrist says "it's complicated" (and I believe it) and has no clue about it. 

I started with a small aperture, and opened it up to the tap size of the Merit diopter, in case I decide to try one of those, and the strange distorted area in the center of the sight picture persists.

I wondered if anyone here had experienced the problem and found a solution or has any advice.
  
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hepburnman
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #1 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 6:35pm
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I've got the same issue and why I've gone to a scope. It's almost seems like a caterac in the center of the eye but my eye doctor does not see one. I noticed that this issue of the target in the center of the front  aperture disappearing occurs when my eyes get tired. I have not experimented how to prevent this during a match. I'd be very much interested too in hearing from others that have this issue and may have found a solution.
  
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Rek
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #2 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 7:43pm
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I shoot a game that requires open sights, and that's why I'm so interested in getting this worked out.

I thought I might try the Merit Lens Disc:
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(scroll down) if I could figure out what the prescription is.
  
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CaryT
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #3 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 8:17pm
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I have a cataract/astigmitism corrective lense implant ,,,,and the same thing will happen to me if I go to small on the rear aperture for the given light conditions.  Might try playin around (read, go larger) on the rear aperture and see what happens.

Cary
  
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JerryH
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #4 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 8:31pm
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I'm having the same problem when using my tube sight. It started just as Rek describes with the problem in the center not quite a year ago. I too have been able to shift to one side and see clearly, until our last Schuetzen match.

Now the distorted spots are everywhere and I couldn't find a clear spot to look through. I still was able to shoot a decent score but suspect there was some luck involved.

I am due for an eye exam and hope my doctor can figure out what's going on. I'll be taking my rear aperture with me as I have the same problem just looking through it.

It'll be a couple of weeks but I'll report back, hopefully with good news.

JerryH
  

I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #5 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 9:07pm
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I have shot iron sight matches without an aperture, just using the globe. Not exactly accurate  Cry Two times I have discovered fixes that have been too temporary to be of any real benefit  Cry

We had so many guys giving up iron sights at Tacoma, I quit scoring an aggregate.   Left the iron matches for  the few that wanted to shoot them. 

Edit: the issues do not affect anything but iron sights and spotting 22 holes at 200 yds.  Nothing can be done but make it worse.
  

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Joe_S
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #6 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 9:30pm
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Could by a problem with your eyesight but  if you are using a tang sight, I would try making minor adjustments to the angle of the sight. That could be the problem. Hope it works, Joe S
  
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jy3855
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #7 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 10:05pm
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Rek,

I have experienced the very same problem, and have found some things that have helped me.

Most important, the closer that I can get the rear aperture to my eye (safely, of course) the less I see that small dark central area. I am using Montana Vintage Arms tang sights on many of my single shot and lever rifles.  Having the rear sight on the tang has been a great help.  With some of my rifles, I kind of cheat forward on the stock to get closer to the sight.

I also like the Hadley discs with a variety of aperture sizes. I have bought several, but it's easy to have just one Hadley and move it from one rifle to another.  The MVA Hadley discs are a very nice unit, and they have an O-ring inlet around the rear rim of the sight to prevent it from scratching the stock when folded - a nice touch that isn't on one of my Hadleys from another mfg.

Receiver sights are difficult for me to use because of the central dark spot, but if I use the right size aperture, the sight picture is liveable. I guess that I should try to use one of my Hadleys on one of my receiver-sighted leverguns.

Finally, I was overdue for an eye exam, so earlier this year when I visited my optometrist, I asked her to set me up with an extra pair of glasses, non-bifocal, that were corrected for about 34" in front of my eye.  I had earlier had a similar pair optimized for computer, and that, and a suggestion from a friend, gave me the idea to ask for these glasses.  It's a bit of a pain at the range to switch back and forth between two pairs of glasses - perhaps I should have had them made as bifocals with my reading prescription at the bottom.  Next time I will.

I hope that some of this may be of some help to you, good luck!

Edit: Oops - just read Joe S's post and definitely agree.  If the rifle's receiver has a flat top, I use a plastic carpenter's square to make sure that my sight's staff is perpendicular to the bore.  This handy way of adjusting the angle of the staff was passed on to me by a wise and respected levergunner.
  
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beltfed
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #8 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 11:27pm
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jy3855,
You must make sure the tang sight is perpendicular to the LINE OF SIGHT through the front sight, not necessarily to the barrel. This is esp important if you are shooting long range with the aperture up higher on the tang sight. Otherwise, if not Perp. to the line of sight, you will be looking thru an out of round aperture. 
beltfed/arnie
  
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John Boy
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #9 - Dec 26th, 2015 at 11:38pm
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Quote:
I have a particular situation with the sight picture I get with my aperture sight: a distortion occurs in the center of the aperture that blurs the front sight.  I'd describe it as a sort of a "whorl", a blurry spot in the center of the sight picture.
This is called 'the fuzzies' in the ocular because the vernier is not mounted perpendicular to a barrel that is not 100% horizontal
* First insure the foresight insert is mounted to the middle of the bore
* Put rifle in a padded vice and put a bubble level on the flat of the barrel to hold the rifle in a horizontal position
* Put a vertical bubble level on the staff so it is 100% vertical
* Look through the ocular to insure there is no 'fuzzies'
* Put a laser bore sighter in the bore and shim or file the base of the vernier to the tip of the pinhead/post or middle of the circle insert on the foresight with the vernier still in a vertical position.
* Looking through the ocular if the laser is not on the tip of the pinhead/post or center of the insert - the foresight is not exactly in the middle of the bore
Results: vernier accurately positioned to the foresight and no more "fuzzies"
Excluding the laser bore sighter, I use a magnetic 6" torpedo level for horizontal alignment and the Wheeler small bubble levels for the barrel
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All my rifles with verniers are the graduated MOA staff mid and long range graduation ones.  I hate Marbles type peep sights and refuse to use them
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #10 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 12:32am
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After all that leveling, if your windage is off as you move out to longer ranges, the staff needs to lean a fuzz to left of compensate  for the drift caused by the right hand twist of the rifling.
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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John Boy
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #11 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 12:43am
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A 1/4 of a bubble move to the left on the vernier will compensate for approximately 4 MOA windage at 1000yds
Didn't mention this because not many folks shoot 1000yds
  
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jy3855
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #12 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 1:16am
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beltfed wrote on Dec 26th, 2015 at 11:27pm:
jy3855,
You must make sure the tang sight is perpendicular to the LINE OF SIGHT through the front sight, not necessarily to the barrel. This is esp important if you are shooting long range with the aperture up higher on the tang sight. Otherwise, if not Perp. to the line of sight, you will be looking thru an out of round aperture. 
beltfed/arnie


Arnie,

I see your point, but have to wonder the extent of the effect. Since there is a significant change in the angle of the line of sight versus the staff with changes of the elevation setting between 100 yds and 600 or 1000 yds, I wonder if the effect is sufficient to advise that the angle of the staff relative to the rifle be changed with significant elevation changes.

I think that the effect is also dependent on the thickness of the metal surrounding the aperture; the thicker the metal surrounding the aperture, the more accentuated the out-of-round view effect would be with deviations from a line of sight coaxial with the aperture.

Going to have to give some further thought on this subject.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #13 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 1:35am
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Quote:
A 1/4 of a bubble move to the left on the vernier will compensate for approximately 4 MOA windage at 1000yds
Didn't mention this because not many folks shoot 1000yds

I found letting the bubble touch the line was perfect to get to 10000 yards without losing all my windage to bullet drift.  

Back in the day when I could see irons, the minor affects of elevating from 200 to 1,000 did not matter. What did matter was turning 45  Cry
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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don1885
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Re: Sight Picture Problem/Question...
Reply #14 - Dec 27th, 2015 at 9:43am
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Not an iron sight shooter but find the topic interesting, for those using the tube sight (Jerry H) is the effect reduced and might tapering the bore of the aperture (larger at the rear) help?
  

Don
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