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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Need a little 38-55 help (Read 25713 times)
SgtDog0311
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Need a little 38-55 help
Dec 23rd, 2015 at 4:45pm
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Gentlemen,    If you got em, would you be so kind as to post pictures of your 38-55 chamber cast and/or any diagrams of 38-55 chamber reamers.   I’ve seen a bushel full of casts and drawings for the 40-65 but not the 38-55.  Wanted to make sure I knew the variations before making some decisioins.   Working on a project and it might help me ask all the right questions and maybe even save some precious greenbacks.      Thanks!  John
  

Best Regards,
John
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RSW
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #1 - Dec 23rd, 2015 at 5:33pm
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John
I'll bet there are a number of forum readers who can help you. It would however be helpful to know what type of rifle you want to build. Is it for fixed ammo silhouette, breech seated schuetzen, or what? Different applications might dictate different chamber configurations as does the brass you intend to use (StarLIne 2.080, 2.125 or WW brass?).
  

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SgtDog0311
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #2 - Dec 23rd, 2015 at 11:22pm
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Thanks RSW...  Good idea.

I've got a Ballard Perfection in for reline.  It goes just over 8lbs, so not a heavy rifle.   TJ liners come .379 and 18 twist or .375 at 14 twist.   I know the competitive shootes are using way faster twists but I’m thinking the former might be a better fit for an 8lb rifle.   I’ve never shot in organized matches of any kind but hoping to try some this year at the OKC range if I get myself ready.  But I was gonna give that a try with a 40-63 or a 40-65.   

So this one was not really slated for anything in particular.    I’d like to try some breech seating;  didn’t know if that required a different chamber.   

I’d like to try some Paper Patch too.  I’d expect a smaller neck  diameter if I cut one specific to paper patch and not sure I’d want to preclude GG bullets.   I figured seeing some reamer drawings and matching them up with their intended purpose might be a help. 

I started out with a preference for a transition flatter than the 45* and also prefer the 2.125 brass/chamber.   I’ve had my preferences changed by other’s experience before so just trying to learn here.   


  

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John
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #3 - Dec 23rd, 2015 at 11:32pm
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Schuetzendave Thanks!   Appreciate your posting that even though it's not a 38-55.   I have that in a Cody - as of yesterday!    Glad to have the drawing.   Checked my twist as soon as I took it out of the box and it's a 16:1.  Other than being sure about how this was chambered I reckon 'some' of what I'm doing in having a good look at the 38-55 variations was to be sure that is really what I wanted vs the 38-50.  Appreciate the drawing and the information you added.
  

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John
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frnkeore
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #4 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 2:44am
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Here is a PT&G drawing for a 2.125 long case. You can change the freebore (.3765 in this drawing) to what ever your groove is, plus .0005 - .001.

Frank
  
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boats
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #5 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 6:49am
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My first CPA built in 1993 is a 18 twist .375 and always use 300 gr bullets fixed. Still using the same. 500 case  lot of WW brassIt's a standard set up and  won a lot of offhand matches. You read about fast twist today and no doubt fast is required if shooting longer heavier bullets I have a 40/65 for heavy  work no need to push a 38.

Shot it a for while breech seated with black powder using a different bullet, tapered . It performed very well, switching bullets was key.

My advice is pick the bullet needed to give adequate ballistics based on expected targets plus brass you can obtain, and set the barrel up to suit. I have no idea what reamer Paul Shuttleworth used, left that up to his experience . Based on on friends experience .379 bore is a mistake. I can't say for sure.

Boats
  
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #6 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 8:17am
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With an 8# rifle you might want to consider going with a 38-40 Rem rather than one of the larger 38s. PTG makes the reamer and all their drawings are on line. Member 'buchsenmacher' (Steve Durren - gunsmith who may well have built your Cody while he worked for them in WY) posted a few pic's of the 38-40 Hepburn he recently built and likely can provide the drawing for same and could chamber your rifle. If you are in OK you have three excellent local gunsmiths who can chamber your rifle (Zimmerman, Baldwin and Crossno), all in the OKC area.

You might also consider the 35-40, which Steve Baldwin shoots so well. IIRC, his reamer is based on the 38-55 case, so brass is easy to come by. Talk to Steve or Dan Zimmerman, who has the reamer for same, about the particulars.

BTW - .303 Brit cases will be short for a 38-50. At the 2015 BPCR Nats the scope winner shot a 38-50 with a 370gr bullet and also got 2nd in irons (the irons winner, shooting a 45-90 got 2nd in scope). Getting close on my 38-50 build. Has a 13" twist, so am hoping it will stabilize a 360gr bullet. Should find out this spring.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #7 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 11:16am
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Thanks Frank! 

The PTG has .100 free bore in common with the 38-50HR.    Interesting!   Tackling the chamber before selecting bullets presents floating variables that complicate decision making.   Been there with the 40-65; glad that is behind me.   

Thanks again… btw, been meaning to send you a PM.  I sent one some time back after buying the TMT software.   I finally got my start & used it to design a couple bullets to send to Tom @ Accurate.   Just got two molds back yesterday.   Be testing them in the Marlin 1895 in 40-65 and the Pacific 40-63.   I can’t imagine how many hours you’ve spent or how proficient you must be by now.   I’m coming along!   Sure appreciated all your efforts there on your thread!!!

Boats,   
I counting on the same about the 40-65.    Having a 38-50RH in the wings is another reason why I’m not really targeting this one for anything beyond ‘general’ shooting.   Hoping to experiment with Breech seating soon.  Marlinman93 sent me the hook for a seater and a drawing of his tool so maybe this spring.      Interesting about the .379 experience.   My exposure to the 38-55 has been  with a Marlin 1893 and more recently with a Cody Ballard.   I’ve only got the one mold for the 1893 (probably a little light for the Cody) but the bullets from that fly very well in the Cody too.   Broke my own streak on a 300yd diamond with it and had very good performance at 650yds.    Should only get better with  a weight better matched to Cody twist.    On a related note I’ve looked at Dave Manson’s McPherson diagram – but thought that an effort to meet lever gun modifications based on his Starline article.

SSShooter,
Thanks for the thoughts here.    I went up and spent about an hour and half with Crossno before sending these two Ballards off to John Taylor.    I wish I would have touched bases with Steve Baldwin too.  Might have impacted my caliber decision.    I may give him a call just to get his thoughts.   Could be an option to ask John Taylor how much he’d knock off the reline price if he didn’t do the chamber on that reline “if” Steve would consider reaming and setting up the lock-up on that one currently slated for 38-55.    I’ll add research into the 38-40 and 35-40 to my list.   Complete ignorance there.      

Thanks All, appreciate the input and drawings.
John
  

Best Regards,
John
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SSShooter
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #8 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 1:27pm
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If you are looking for a bit longer chamber, Steve Rhoades (Arizona Sharpshooters) has a DanT designed Manson 38-50 reamer. After sizing 30-40 Krag cases up to 38cal with a tool Chris Christensen loaned me they are a perfect fit in my chamber. One of those times when "everything came together".
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #9 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 5:02pm
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Here is the thing about 375 vs 379. Original bores were 379 Winchester and Marlin lever actions.  Some of the Italian reproductions are too. Guys I know that have .379 bores have trouble with brass and chambers fitting. It's big, fine for black powder, but go with a bullet .002 over like most of us do for smokeless powder it's hard to get the brass to accommodate it, not impossible just not easy.

Modern builders, when I set my rifle up 20 plus years ago, were limited to .375 blanks, because of other calibers that were intended for .375 bore it's about all they could buy. As it turned out .377 cast bullets in a .375 bore is a happy combination, not too big for the brass and nice bullet fit. All my molds are custom but think it's easier to get a mold .377 than it is .381

Anyhow the Lever Silhouette Shooters I know always have trouble with brass and bullet fit in .379 bores. Most of the single shot rifles we use are .375 bore

Boats
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #10 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 5:45pm
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It might be time for me to do a chamber cast in my Schoyen Ballard, just to se how his chamber reaming compares to the factory Marlin barreled Ballards I have. 
Maybe after Christmas I'll cast it, and a couple different Ballards all in .38-55, and give you the data John.
  

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SgtDog0311
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #11 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 11:38pm
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Boats,  I went and had a look at the Boomer site.   Sure has some great testimonials.    I’ll add that one to my favorites.   And since Tom at Accurate does not cut round noses, I’ll be needing a mold once that is back at the ranch. 

For my 38-50 (Cody) I was fortunate enough to get some RMC brass along with the rifle as well as a Steve Brooks mold (thanks Vall).    I’m looking forward to shooting that one for sure.
The 38 caliber line up stands like this here.
*Marlin 1893 in 38-55.   .379 groove and 18 twist.    
*Cody Ballard 38-55.   .376 groove and 15 twist.
*Cody Ballard 38-50.   16 twist.    Just arrived yesterday so have not slugged it yet.  I’m expecting .375.   
*Marlin Ballard in 38-50 with bad bore – this one is my focus here.  Obviously my original plan was gonna be for a 38-55 chamber.  There are some interesting options being offered though.   As usual I start raking in enough options to make decisions more difficult

The issue you talked about with .379s is discussed here by M.L. McPherson on the Starline site.    (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);
Read it some time back and recently obtained a copy of the reamer mentioned there.     He talks about a lot of people fouling up their accuracy by trying to open up the chambers in their lever guns.    Can’t attest to any of it but it was an interesting read for someone with an original Marlin with a tight chamber.
  

Best Regards,
John
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #12 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 11:48pm
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Vall, thanks!  I'll sure digest what you have.    I can tell you that the Cody 38-55 of mine calls for short brass and has a 45* transition.   Produces lead rings as you've seen.   And that with a groove size bullet.   I attribute the rings to the brass lenght being about .010 short.   Shoots lights-out though.  If I line a lube groove up at the case mouth I'd probably eliminate the lead rings but I've only got the one mold right now and that bullet does not have a lube groove where I would need it.      Probably my second most accurate rifle behind the Original Ballard Perfection in 32-40.
  

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John
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #13 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 11:49pm
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I'll add some personal experience to the M.L. McPherson article.  My Marlin 336 Cowboy in 38-55 has a .381" groove, which flummoxed me before I heard of the Starline brass. I ended up buying a outside neck turning attachment for my Forster case trimmer and thinning the necks on some W-W 38-55 brass.

Now that I've heard of, and tried the Starline brass, the problem is solved. I've got a 382-250B mold from Tom at Accurate that throws about .383-384" depending on alloy, and I size them to .382", load them in Starline brass, and my Cowboy 38-55 gobbles 'em up without a hiccup.

Starline brass is the solution to a .379" groove diameter 38-55.
  
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Re: Need a little 38-55 help
Reply #14 - Dec 25th, 2015 at 6:54am
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Interesting that thinning the necks on all ready thin cases (Win) and then going to considerably thicker cases (Starline) solved the problem.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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