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50-70 smokeless loads (Read 11938 times)

jhm Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1657 Location: georgia Joined: Sep 4^th, 2011	50-70 smokeless loads Dec 7^th, 2015 at 7:06pm	Print Post
	Anyone have a good smokeless load for a rolling block? JMHolland


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sharps Participating Member Offline Posts: 35 Joined: Jun 20^th, 2014	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #1 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 7:53pm	Print Post
	I checked, lyman # 49 reload manual has some lds w/a 425 grn bullet, good luck


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #2 - Dec 7^th, 2015 at 9:24pm	Print Post
	425 grain lead bullet - 30 grs 5744 - 1419 FPS Start at 22grs and work up But ... the 50-70 45-70 govt is a black powder caliber Thanks for noting the typo!
	« Last Edit: Dec 8^th, 2015 at 10:58am by »

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bmdrake71 Ex Member	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #3 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 7:46am	Print Post
	I think he's looking for 50-70 loads and not 45-70.


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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1113 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #4 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 9:52am	Print Post
	And the 50-70 is a black powder cartridge too. It always mystifies me why someone gets a nice black powder rifle and then wants to use smokless powder in it. Mine have always seemed to work best with black powder. The added benefit is that you eliminate all the dangers inherrent with using smokless powder in rifle/cartridge combinations that definately were not designed for smokless powders. It's kind of like demanding a heating and air conditioning in a Model T. George Salmon, Idaho


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16700 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #5 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 10:38am	Print Post
	I see it more like making your Model T run on today's fuel.

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jhm Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1657 Location: georgia Joined: Sep 4^th, 2011	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #6 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 4:45pm	Print Post
	No big deal guys just wanted to try some smokeless. Kinda tired of the mess. JHolland


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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1113 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #7 - Dec 8^th, 2015 at 9:41pm	Print Post
	Other than having to wash the brass, I find that good black powder loads are generally easier to clean up than smokless powder ones. But, then, that's just my experience. I used to shoot smokless in my 45-70 until one chilly day I was shooting shotgun patterns with my 45-70. After that I went back to black powder. I will admit that my favorite load in the 45-70 is a duplex load though. Most of my rifles are originals and I'm not inclined to risk them with the uncertainities of smokless powder. When I am feeling lazy I shoot my 30-40 Shiloh or something else designed for smokless powder. I doubt that a Model T would do very well on today's gasoline. At the least you would be doing a lot of valve jobs. George


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ireload2 Full Member Offline Posts: 169 Joined: Jul 9^th, 2009	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #8 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 2:00am	Print Post
	How can you possibly claim that a 30-40 Shiloh is designed for smokeless but claim that a 38-55 Shiloh is designed only for black powder? The rifle design is the same. Are you going to also tell us that a 32-40 was designed only for BP and a .32 Special was designed only for smokeless? As far as the model T goes you put in modern hardened valve seats and you can drive it with modern fuel. George Babits wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 9:41pm: Other than having to wash the brass, I find that good black powder loads are generally easier to clean up than smokless powder ones. But, then, that's just my experience. I used to shoot smokless in my 45-70 until one chilly day I was shooting shotgun patterns with my 45-70. After that I went back to black powder. I will admit that my favorite load in the 45-70 is a duplex load though. Most of my rifles are originals and I'm not inclined to risk them with the uncertainities of smokless powder. When I am feeling lazy I shoot my 30-40 Shiloh or something else designed for smokless powder. I doubt that a Model T would do very well on today's gasoline. At the least you would be doing a lot of valve jobs. George


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16700 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #9 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 9:44am	Print Post
	George Babits wrote on Dec 8^th, 2015 at 9:41pm: I doubt that a Model T would do very well on today's gasoline. At the least you would be doing a lot of valve jobs. George Exactly. That's why I think it's a better comparison than A/C. OT, but once reworked with stainless steel valves, and hardened seats, a Model T does just fine on today's gas.

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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1113 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #10 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 10:08am	Print Post
	Exactly, that 50-70 rolling block for smokless powder needs to be newly manufactured with barrel and action of chrome-moly steel. To be honest, I've shot smokless powder loads in some of my originals many years ago. Over time I experienced enough problems to convince me that black powder rifles were designed for black powder. But, I think most people need to pee on the electric fence to see if it is on. George


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16700 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #11 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 10:15am	Print Post
	Well I wouldn't agree totally George. I do think that certain calibers are much better suited for BP than smokeless, and agree the .50-70 is one of those. But I only own old black powder rifles, and don't shoot anything but smokeless in mine. Never have used the holy black, and don't see it in my future either. I've had excellent accuracy, and since all my guns get fed cast bullets and nothing over 1250 fps, and no high pressure loads, they have shot well for me for decades. I owned a .50-70 years ago, and didn't find a smokeless load that shot well in it for me. I eventually moved it along in a trade.

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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1113 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #12 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 8:48pm	Print Post
	Yes, I would have to agree that some of the old black powder cartridges are suitable for smokless powder in the proper actions. I have a very nice 32-20 #2 Remington that I have never shot anything but smokless powder in. I use smokless in my 38-55 Model 1894; but not in my Remington 1 1/2, although it would probably be OK. The 25-20 in the LoWall is another good smokless canidate. But, with the big cases like the 45-70 and longer, smokless powder becomes risky at best. Not necessiarilly because of action strength, but because of the possibility of over charging. But, as I said before, that is just my opinion based on 50+ years of shooting these rifles. George


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16700 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #13 - Dec 9^th, 2015 at 9:17pm	Print Post
	Sounds like we're on the same page George, or close at least!

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coljimmy Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 283 Joined: Nov 10^th, 2012	Re: 50-70 smokeless loads Reply #14 - Dec 25^th, 2015 at 12:39pm	Print Post
	Well, George, I get tired of the black powder clean up mess too. Local load for 45-70-405 is 24 grains of 2400, and fill r up with malt-o-meal. 30 carbine works with 12 gr 2400 with 100 gr plinkers. More experience with A-40 Continental engines (aircraft - 1930's), 2 oz Marvel Mystery Oil per 10 gallons fuel, works in OX-5 engines too. Ought to help a Model T too. James


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