Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Hoch action information needed (Read 10146 times)
porchdog48
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 100
Location: Waynesburg, Ohio
Joined: Mar 25th, 2010
Hoch action information needed
Dec 6th, 2015 at 9:12am
Print Post  
I have a Hoch action serial number in the low 100's with an S after the serial number. USA , Colorado is marked on the side. It appears to be one of the kit action as the lever still has mold marks. I seem to remember reading that these actions need some type of heat treating. If this is so is there any way I can tell if this has been completed? The action has been assembled, barreled, and chambered in 32 miller short. 
Any information on this action would greatly be appreciated.   
Dave
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
KAF
Ex Member


Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 9:39am
Print Post  
Taken from a forum elsewhere:
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Frank de Haas reviewed the Hoch action and its successor, the Hoch-Meacham action in his A Potpourri of Single Shot Rifles and Actions.

According to him, it was made by both manufacturers as a "kit" with the parts being either unpolished or polished, and the final fitting and heat treatment up to the purchaser. De Haas didn't know why this was so, but I believe Ken Bresien did the same thing on his Stevens actions to avoid the financial and liability hassles of becoming a "gun manufacturer."

If it is a Hoch, it will say "U. S. A." on the left side of the receiver, for "Uncompahgre Scheutzen Arms." Meacham's version will have his name and address. As 4060May said, the original kits were pretty crude, especially the inside fitting, and De Haas was pretty unhappy about that. He was, however, able to build a .32-40 rifle on the action. Meacham improved the fit and finish of the action parts, as well as details such as the underlever catch, which of course raised the price of the kit to $300 or so, a fair amount of money back then.

De Haas liked the design, said it was simple, effective and unlikely to go out of order. It's a big heavy action, as they go, but Hoch designed it for Scheutzen shooting with .32-40-type cartridges and low intensity loadings. He opined (and Hoch concurred) that he low sidewalls render it unfit for hot cartridges, the extractor won't work with rimless, and a cartridge with a .30-40 head size is about the limit to go into the action, even with some extra grinding and fitting.

Google search:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ledball
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1010
Location: syracuse, ohio
Joined: Nov 20th, 2009
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:25am
Print Post  
The unhardened receivers devoloped a lot of clearance around the firing plan. Ledball
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
desert-dude
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 439
Location: Selah
Joined: Jul 23rd, 2013
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 11:51am
Print Post  
You can always Rockwell it to tell if it has been hardened. 

Unhardened it should run about Rc 20. Hardened maybe between 30 and 40.

I can get Rc 44 out of 8620 with a water quench, which I don't recommend.
Better to put a .02 or more case on it and then quench in oil. 

I asked the metallurgist at the  company where I buy steel about TEM (temper
embrittlement ) and he said there was not enough carbon to cause a problem.   

However, before you harden you really need an idea of the alloy used. 

I just pulled up an image of the Hoch; indeed the designer went for functionality not 
beauty.  Butt ugly is being polite!

If anyone really wants to be a perfectionist I have a citation for a carburize and
double heat treat that raises the impact resistance about 10 times. (8620 only)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11439
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 12:09pm
Print Post  
I paid three hundred to Meacham for my Hoch action. No marks on it anywhere. Carbon steel frame, not sure about the other parts. Had to harden the breech block. Inside the breech block is hollow and has a side plate held on with screws and pins. I agree, low pressure action. Seem to remember some advertisement claiming high pressure rounds could be used. Plenty of bearing surface for the frame and block. The very hollow BB I think is the weak point. 

       Joe.
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7251
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 2:54pm
Print Post  
Quote:
If anyone really wants to be a perfectionist I have a citation for a carburize and
double heat treat that raises the impact resistance about 10 times. (8620 only)


I'd be interested in this.

I bought my Hoch in 1987 (#132, I think) and paid $275 w/engraving (barely engraved) but, had to wait months to get it. It was a mess and I wasn't happy with the parts when I did get it. As a machinist, I spent more than 40 hours making a working action out of it but, I will never part with it. I believe the orginals have a better trigger than the Meacham's. I got mine down to 8 oz, it wasn't hard to do  and it's been trouble free since.

I shot it with the CBA for at least 2 years. My orginal barrel was a 30 cal, 14 twist, Douglas barrel in 32/35 Stevens (2.2 cc Case capacity). In those years, I shot at least 1000 rounds of ~2200 fps loads with 190 gr bullets. Later when I got QL, I ran the loads and they where ~32K psi. It's still going strong with no wear. It's pictured in my Avatar.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7251
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #6 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 8:00pm
Print Post  
Dave,
Could you send that page 2 brochure to me, it's to small on here to read.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
jfeldman
ASSRA Board Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1079
Location: Imperial Beach, Ca
Joined: Nov 5th, 2005
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #7 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 10:59pm
Print Post  
I have one of the early ones and it's been a very good rifle.  I did not do any heat treat on it and it does show some wear in the lever/block as mentioned above.   

Regards, Joe
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6707
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #8 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 2:43am
Print Post  
Are the "little" cases like Miller and RKS too hot for a Hoch?
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
porchdog48
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 100
Location: Waynesburg, Ohio
Joined: Mar 25th, 2010
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #9 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 7:38pm
Print Post  
I have found loading data that would keep pressures under 30,000psi using 200 or 210 grain bullets breech seated. I am not saying this action will take these pressures, but hope someone can yes or no.
Dave
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7251
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #10 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 7:54pm
Print Post  
If you'll read my post, above, I had no problems running ~32K pressures. My early Hoch shows no wear.

Frank
« Last Edit: Dec 7th, 2015 at 8:26pm by frnkeore »  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
porchdog48
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 100
Location: Waynesburg, Ohio
Joined: Mar 25th, 2010
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #11 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 8:10pm
Print Post  
Frank, Thanks for bring my attention to your previous post , which I read yesterday, but failed to write it down so was gone today. Mine is serial number 120 S and I think at this time I will have the rockwell hardness check and if low will have it case hardened. If it checks ok finish the gun. If anyone has other suggestions I would appreciate the input. 
Dave
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RayH
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


ASSRA # 10880

Posts: 753
Location: Oldest City, FL
Joined: Jan 4th, 2012
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #12 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 9:03pm
Print Post  
I've got Hoch #225 marked only "Montrose, Colorado". It may be a .25-20WCF. I haven't checked. It's probably going to live out its life as a wall hanger. A pretty nice rifle with attractive furniture; but, I've got plenty of shooters already.
  

In GOD We Trust
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6707
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #13 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 1:23am
Print Post  
Thanks Dave, That is a pretty good run, 30,000 rounds.  BTW, What do you do in the evening if you're not casting bullets  Wink
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bent_Ramrod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1455
Location: Southern Arizona
Joined: Feb 8th, 2006
Re: Hoch action information needed
Reply #14 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 2:45pm
Print Post  
Rockwell testing is of little value on a casehardened part.  The point will dent the soft metal under the casehardened surface and then puncture the surface.  The resultant reading might be a little better than the soft metal but will not be definitive.

Find an out of the way spot on the part and take an old file and try to file the surface.  The file will skitter over the casehardened surface (although it may scratch any colors, so do this in an area you don't have to look at) but it will bite into an unhardened surface as you would expect a file to do.

I use a rusty old, dull file for this job.  It doesn't have to be sharp for this test and a good one will dull on a casehardened surface.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint