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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) tube sight holder (Read 13475 times)
oughtsix
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tube sight holder
Dec 5th, 2015 at 3:46pm
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Found this today and would like to know more about it.  I have  some ideas what it came off and that it is missing a knob or screw on the one side.   Any info  or photos  of a  complete one would be  appreciated, 

-06
  

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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #1 - Dec 5th, 2015 at 9:06pm
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I can't tell you that it's for a specific sight or scope, but there is a knurled knob that goes on that threaded cross screw to lock it in a certain elevation.
That's cool as heck! Would love to find one myself!
  

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Chuckster
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 12:41pm
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Don't know anything about the mount, but very interesting.
That has to be one of the most complicated machining jobs I have seen in a while.
Wonder what the front mount looks like.
Chuck
  
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UtahDave
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 4:37pm
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Given the apparent pivot point could this be a front mount for a tube sight?  I've been going to build a 30" or so long tube scope and try to mount the front on some sort of pivot.  If the rear mount were high enough one might need to raise the front for shorter range shooting. just a guess.  Very neat artifact.   

Dave
  
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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2015 at 9:22pm
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A pivot on a front mount would be nice, but I see no reason to have elevation on a front mount. My long scopes with lots of elevation in the rear use a larger front mount with a leaf spring to keep the front located, but allow for extreme elevation angles, and not bind the scope. Hard to see in this picture, but the spring is on the bottom of the front mount on my .32-20 Ballard:
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frnkeore
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #5 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 3:01am
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I like that mount, a lot. Very high quality and I would consider it a front mount if, it pivots on the large diameter area.

You can have both elevation and/or windgage on either end of the barrel with the same results and movement, based on the C to C distance of the mounts.

Not easy to make but, the setups are fairly straight forward with just a little hand fitting work.

Much easier than building action Smiley

Frank
  

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oughtsix
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #6 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 8:02am
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The guy used the magic word when he told me what it came off of, he said he took it off a Hepburn, so I got out the cash.  It will fit  a standard Hepburn barrel at the receiver, but not a  heavier barrel version. (I don't think Remington numbered their barrels did they). 

The top "turret" will rotate 360 degrees.  Would that be the windage ? (that amount of windage would be useful at EG on occasion!)  No other windage adjustment I can determine, unless you moved the front mount.  The  seller did not have the  front , the tube or the rifle. 

I may take it apart to see if there are any identifying marks, but it looks un-marked.

Thanks for the looking, 

-06
  

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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #7 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 10:29am
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Too bad he didn't have the front mount, as it probably was windage adjustable. My guess is the 360 degree movement aids in putting the scope and mounts on the gun, without removing the scope from the mounts. If it didn't pivot, there would be no way to put the mounts on without removing the scope first. Then you'd have to slide the scope through both mounts carefully once mounted.
  

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Chuckster
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #8 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 11:41am
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Beginning to agree with Dave and Frank that it is a front mount.
Having the elevation adjustment at the front would result in less change in the cheek weld position with range change.
Particularly if the rear mount is near the receiver and using a longer mount spacing.
The rear mount for this may have been on the tang. Would take some change in thinking to adjust.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #9 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 9:38pm
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Chuckster wrote on Dec 7th, 2015 at 11:41am:
Beginning to agree with Dave and Frank that it is a front mount.
Having the elevation adjustment at the front would result in less change in the cheek weld position with range change.
Particularly if the rear mount is near the receiver and using a longer mount spacing.
The rear mount for this may have been on the tang. Would take some change in thinking to adjust.
Chuck


If this is a front mount, then the rear mount would need to be fairly tall to allow this mount to lower the front for longer range shots. As tall as this mount is, it would either be all the way down, or the rear quite tall to work.

Had lunch with a good friend who's an advanced antique scope collector. He asked if I would forward the pictures here, as he doesn't do any forums. I'll send them to him, and see what he might add.
  

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Chuckster
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #10 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 11:11am
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Oughtsix, Thanks for posting this. It is fun to speculate on some of these things.
Would be very interested in what the advanced antique scope collector has to say.
Nice scope on the Ballard. Rear mount really looks complicated, but would work well.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #11 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 11:36am
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Chuckster wrote on Dec 8th, 2015 at 11:11am:

Nice scope on the Ballard. Rear mount really looks complicated, but would work well.
Chuck


Going to get more complicated, but hopefully better Chuck. It has no vernier elevation adjustment, so I'm adding that, so it will be more user friendly at the range.
  

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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #12 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 7:34pm
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Vall,

Could you show some more detail of your front mount?  It is a nice tube scope.  How long is the tube?

Dave
  
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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #13 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:05am
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UtahDave wrote on Dec 8th, 2015 at 7:34pm:
Vall,

Could you show some more detail of your front mount?  It is a nice tube scope.  How long is the tube?

Dave


It's a 32" scope. One of the cheapo Tasco/Navy Arms that they sold decades ago. Picked up the scope and mounts at our local gun show recently for a  giveaway price. Had crooked crosshairs, and lenses a bit cloudy from dirt. Pulled it apart and cleaned the lenses, installed new crosshairs, and then stripped someone's black spray paint off it. Antiqued the outside to age it, and aged the mounts carefully with 500 grit emery paper. It needs another application of solution to get it a little darker. 
I have another that is on my Hepburn, but mounted in Winchester mounts. It needs a better rear mount to make it go past 200 yds. in the .45-70 Hepburn.
Here's the mounts:
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And my Hepburn with the Win mounts. Got this one much darker, and like  the look better.:
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oughtsix
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #14 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:53am
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OK Vall, now you are teasing me with that  Hepburn!
  

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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #15 - Dec 9th, 2015 at 11:31am
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oughtsix wrote on Dec 9th, 2015 at 10:53am:
OK Vall, now you are teasing me with that  Hepburn!


Yes, you need to put that sight on a Hepburn, and find a suitable front sight too! Lots of good useable front sights around that would work with it! Most of the old inexpensive scopes had a decent front sight that would work for you!
I think there may also be one or two more of these scopes in the bunch my friend is selling, but they had very crude mounts.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #16 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 4:21pm
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I think I ran across something that might help determine what your scope mount is! This is a picture of a Wm Malcolm scope mount from the 1800's on an old muzzleloader. The mount is different in it's attachment to the rifle, but looks to be the same on the upper part.
Pretty sure you have a Wm Malcolm rear scope mount!
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oughtsix
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #17 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 6:18pm
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That knurled section looks very similar,  You might be onto something.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #18 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 7:57pm
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I'm guessing it's Malcolm, and possibly different application, and maybe slightly newer? Not a lot of scopes or scope makers in that era to choose from.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #19 - Dec 23rd, 2015 at 4:18pm
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That's a very nifty front mount blindeye! Well worth holding onto, and hoping for a proper Malcolm rear!
  

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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #20 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 9:48am
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Blindeye,
Interesting mount. Have never seen the concave and convex ring idea used before, but would certainly prevent binding of the scope.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: tube sight holder
Reply #21 - Dec 24th, 2015 at 10:01am
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The only question that comes to mind for me is tolerances of the parts on that front mount? If it's close enough to not have any play, then it will be tough to slip the scope tube into it, and not scar the finish. If it's loose enough to slip in easily, then tolerances will be loose, and accuracy will be affected. 
Would still be a great front mount to own and try, just to see how it worked!
  

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