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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55 (Read 17708 times)
4570mike
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Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Nov 28th, 2015 at 6:30pm
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I wasn't getting the results I'd hoped for with conventional smokeless powders and was told to try Blackhorn 209.  This past summer, I shot some matches with my 45-70 and 38-55 using this stuff.  Prior to that, I looked for some supporting experience on this and another forum, with little help.
With the summer behind, I have to say I'm sold on BH209 for both of these cartridges.
I'm loading the 45-70 to about 1180 fps and the 38-55 to around 1230 fps.  This is with a 490 gr and 355 gr bullet respectfully. 
Most of my shooting was at silhouettes, so I don't have MOA claims to make, but many consistent hits at 400 and 500 yds.   
Contrary to some comments, the powder does not cause corrosion, although the residue is heaver than normal smokeless, and I suspect if you leave it along long enough, it may not be good.  The fouling does clean up easily.  I wish BH209 was legal in BPCR Matches, but I can understand why it's not.
I was curious if anyone else was using this in 45-70 or 38-55 (or any other cartridge).
Mike.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #1 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 8:07pm
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Contrary to some comments, the powder does not cause corrosion
Not what the spectrograph analysis determined

Blackhorn 209 and Trail Boss Compositions Exposed! 
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...findings were that Blackhorn 209, while basically nitrocellulose contained inclusions of potassium nitrite and sulphur, which may create potassium sulphate, possibly sulphur trioxide, or dioxide combining with water in the air form sulfuric acid.
  
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BP
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #2 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 9:06pm
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“Potassium nitrite forms potassium nitrate when heated in the presence of oxygen from 550° to 790°.”

“From 1903 until the World War I era, potassium nitrate for black powder and fertilizer was produced on an industrial scale from nitric acid produced via the Birkeland–Eyde process, …”

  
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Chuckster
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #3 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 11:06am
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Somewhere I read that the residue from black powder is a base, not acid. Never had some litmus paper available to check.
Might be a simple test to perform on the real stuff or the substitutes.
Chuck
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #4 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 12:38pm
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BP residue is pretty alkaline indeed - but this blackhorn stuff isn't BP.  Still getting to sulphuric acid starting from traces of potassium nitrite and sulphur is a bit too far-fetched for me...
Kind like saying you'd better not boil water, as you'll be creating hyrogen which might react with the oxygen in the air and explode.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #5 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 4:07pm
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I rad some stuff on this powdwer a few years ago. What I read said that the formulation was close to the old Dupont Bulk Smokeless, with added things to make it smoke.

In the article, they sanded a piece of steel and ignited the powder on it and left the residue for some time period. It didn't seem t effect the bare metal. I thought i would make a good duplexing powder, when used with real BP.

My biggest issue with this powder is how much it costs. $35 for 12 oz in my area.

Frank
  
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John Boy
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #6 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 4:08pm
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Somewhere I read that the residue from black powder is a base, not acid.
BP foul is primarily potassium bicarbonate ... pH =10.3, a base
  
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cheatin_charlie
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #7 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 4:22pm
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A lot of guys with inline muzzleloaders use Blackhorn and I have never heard
any complaints about rust or corrosion.  But all of them clean their bores at the
end of the day after firing their rifles.  I have used it in a couple cartridge rifles
but cleaned bore after firing and no problems.  Is not cleaning your rifle bore
after firing Blackhorn a good idea?  Probably not,  but if used correctly I don't
see a problem with it.  Blackhorn 209, Triple Seven,Pyrodex  all are safe powders  just clean them correctly to stop any chance of corrosion. It works 
for me.
  
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westerner
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #8 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 5:16pm
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cheatin_charlie wrote on Nov 29th, 2015 at 4:22pm:
A lot of guys with inline muzzleloaders use Blackhorn and I have never heard
any complaints about rust or corrosion.  But all of them clean their bores at the
end of the day after firing their rifles.  I have used it in a couple cartridge rifles
but cleaned bore after firing and no problems.  Is not cleaning your rifle bore
after firing Blackhorn a good idea?  Probably not,  but if used correctly I don't
see a problem with it.  Blackhorn 209, Triple Seven,Pyrodex  all are safe powders  just clean them correctly to stop any chance of corrosion. It works 
for me.


But, but, but, that's logical. Huh??  Undecided

     Joe. 
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #9 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 6:21pm
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Thankfully, neither smokeless, BH209 nor duplex loads are legal in BPCR. If you can't get your 45-70 and 38-55 to shoot with BP, then something is wrong with your loads or rifle (as we know it can't be you Wink). Those are two of the most rung-out and well known BPCR cartridges going. Where are you located? We'll get you some help so your scores will count.
  
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4570mike
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #10 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 7:02pm
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I'm not having difficulty with the BH 209; I think it's great (and have not found it the least bit corrosive). Nor am I in need of help getting in the X-ring; learned how to do that years ago.
I chose BH209 as I didn't want to bother with BP. I shot that for years and  choose not to go back. I'm curious if any one else here has tried it, especially in 45-70 or 38-55.  The loading data available is limited.  I'm interested to know what others are doing. BTW, I'm in Michigan.  Thanks for all your comments.
Mike.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #11 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 7:28pm
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I'm curious if any one else here has tried it, especially in 45-70 or 38-55.  The loading data available is limited.
 
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westerner
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #12 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 8:06pm
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4570mike, what is it about BP you don't like? Why did you stop using it?   

        Joe.
  
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cheatin_charlie
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #13 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 8:49pm
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westerner
 
All I am saying is if you clean your rifle after use there is no problem.  I clean 
all my rifles at the end of the day, smokeless, blackpowder, BH209 or whatever.
If you choose not to then that is your choice.
 
Charlie
  
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westerner
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #14 - Nov 29th, 2015 at 10:15pm
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I agree. It's certainly not rocket surgery. 

     Joe.   Smiley
  
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