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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55 (Read 17734 times)
SSShooter
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #15 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 8:21am
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What is the advantage to shooting 209 over BP? Seems both need similar clean-up.
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #16 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 8:38am
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Right after 209 came out one of our writers tested it in a trapdoor. He wrote the report and described the clean up. In an addendum to the article he described coming back a couple of days later and finding his pristine trapdoor barrel had turned into a sewer pipe. The barrel completely choked with rust with deep pits. 

40 Rod
  
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KAF
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #17 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 9:38am
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There is no reason to use anything but Black Powder instead of the substitutes. I NEVER had a problem using straight black in anything I used.
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #18 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 9:55am
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40_Rod wrote on Nov 30th, 2015 at 8:38am:
Right after 209 came out one of our writers tested it in a trapdoor. He wrote the report and described the clean up. In an addendum to the article he described coming back a couple of days later and finding his pristine trapdoor barrel had turned into a sewer pipe. The barrel completely choked with rust with deep pits. 

40 Rod


I have read similar reports but powder was Pyrodex and barrel steel was from latter half 1800s or similar quality steel. I used Pyrodex for decades in various guns with no problems at all with corrosion, however, they were all of modern steels from WW2 or decades later. Seems an easy conclusion. 

Also, from my own old guns (1890s earliest) that quality of gunbarrel steel was highly variable, especially in amount of granular impurities that seem to be sites of initial corrosion. Techniques to reduce the amount of granular impurities (slag particles??) seems to be one of leading technical issues with getting consistantly pure, relatively corrosion-resistant barrel steels.

Grisen
  
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #19 - Nov 30th, 2015 at 10:27am
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westerner wrote on Nov 29th, 2015 at 8:06pm:
4570mike, what is it about BP you don't like? Why did you stop using it?  

        Joe.


I'm here to learn.  Enlighten me, please. 


        Joe. 
  

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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #20 - Dec 4th, 2015 at 1:00am
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Fouling control is the main reason I use BH 209. to me they are very similiar in every other aspect.  I still prefer the Black Powder for most shooting but at a few local matches its just easier and more fun not to have to wipe oar blowtube every shot.
  
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4570mike
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #21 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 5:49pm
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Joe, There is nothing wrong with BP.  I shot it in competition for fifteen years.  For cartridge guns, I prefer something better.  BH209 doesn't have the fouling issues associated with BP; much less clean-up, and I can get better velocities. Contrary to what several have written, it is not corrosive. It does burn dirty and it's best to clean the bore after use. I have had excellent accuracy out to 500 yds.
My experience with BH209 has been very positive in cartridge rifles. I would recommend it to anyone.  If someone wants to shoot BP, I have no problem with that.  I chose to do something else. My post was to find out what others are doing/finding.
Mike.
  
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #22 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 6:52pm
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Glad you answered my question, thanks. I've tried most of the BP substitutes also and was prepared to buy a can of BH209 a couple days ago when in Idaho Falls. 
Just could not get that 35.00 to come out of my wallet. I thought, HOLY COW! Bought a pair of 230.00 Red Wing boots instead. 

Been shooting the real thing so long can clean just as easy as smokeless. Bore fouling on a hot day is the same problem it was from the start. Sometimes it's amazing and sometime I hate it. 

         Joe.
  

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4570mike
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #23 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 7:25pm
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JOE; You are correct, BH209 is very expensive. Even buying it 5lbs at a time, it's almost $3.00 an once!  My crude comparison with BP is that it's still about 1/3 more expensive owing to the fact you use less BH209 for the same performance from BP. Still expensive.
I'm hoping all you BP fanatics will start using it so the price will come down  Wink
Mike.
  
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #24 - Dec 7th, 2015 at 7:51pm
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Quote:
I'm hoping all you BP fanatics will start using it so the price will come down   
Mike.


I really wanted to try it when I first found out about it but, when you only get 3/4 lb for that $35, I think it will have to be the other way around, at least for me. Price first, then buy Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #25 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 5:34pm
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You will need to convince the NRA to make it legal in competition. But, don't think there is much chance of this as they have moved in the other direction over the years. We prefer to shoot like the ODGs.  Wink
  

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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #26 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 6:51pm
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SSShooter wrote on Dec 8th, 2015 at 5:34pm:
You will need to convince the NRA to make it legal in competition. But, don't think there is much chance of this as they have moved in the other direction over the years. We prefer to shoot like the ODGs.  Wink


The shooters used to vote on the rules.  I suppose they still do. ???? 
  

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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #27 - Dec 8th, 2015 at 8:49pm
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I suppose they still do. ????
Nope, there is a Competition Committee now that pontificates on all requests.  The only substitute allowed in BPCR rules is Pyrodex because it contains sulfur and is not a duplex powder as 209 is
  
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #28 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 4:40pm
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I understand the thinking behind keeping BP in the matches; once the camel gets its nose in the tent........

I mostly shoot Service Rifle and there are always a lot of "noses" poking around the rule making.

BH209 is really not for muzzle loaders; it works best in the in-line, hunting variety, but I doubt you see any of those on the firing line.  I like the performance in old BP cartridges.

I guess not many on this forum use it.

Mike.
  
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Re: Blackhorn 209 in 45-70 and 38-55
Reply #29 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 4:52pm
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I had posted earlier that BH209 was $35 for 12 oz. I was wrong, I just came from Sportsmans Warehouse and it's actually $35 for only 10 oz can. Very sad that they would price it that high and expect BP shooters to use it.

Frank

  

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