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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Weird ideas (Read 9960 times)
Goatwhiskers
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Weird ideas
Nov 26th, 2015 at 7:24pm
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Gotta do something about crazy ideas that pop into my head.  What would I be getting into by trying holy black in my Cadet .357Max, outside of the aggravation of bore cleaning?  Probably would use a RD190gr bullet.  GW
  
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BP
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #1 - Nov 26th, 2015 at 7:47pm
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Same thing I get into using a 357 MAX case loaded with black powder behind a 200gr Ideal #35875 in a low-wall...
a lot of fun.

But I'd be careful, you might learn a few things too.     Wink
  
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Goatwhiskers
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #2 - Nov 26th, 2015 at 10:20pm
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BP, I suppose the first logical question is what kind of charge you're using.  My last experience with black was many years ago when I had a muzzle loader.  GW
  
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #3 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 12:48am
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GW,

I drop-tube the bp through a 3 foot brass tube.
With the bullet breech-seated, using previously fired brass left unsized, I can drop 37.5 grains of older Goex 2F (no compression and no crushed grains of powder), which still lets me thumb-seat a 3/64" milk carton wad in the case mouth, and gives 1274 fps avg vel using small pistol primers.

Just for reference, the old WRA catalogs show the 38 Extra Long centerfire cartridge using 38 grains of black powder with a 160 grain bullet using a 20/1 alloy.
  
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kootne
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #4 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 12:51pm
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Track down a copy of the Blackpowder Cartridge News, spring issue, 1998. there is an article on the 35-30 Maynard (which the author, Steve Garbe, claims was resurrected as the .357 Max.) Steve covers a lot of basics in this article for getting going. The focus of the article was finding a cartridge that shot black as well as the .38/55 and had the lower recoil of the .32/40 for shuetzen shooting
  
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #5 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:33pm
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I don't know where Steve was getting his info on the 35/30 Maynard but, my info has the 1882 version, 35/30 Maynard with a .400 case head and a .494 rim diameter, same as the 32/35 Stevens/Maynard. The 1873 & 1865 35/30 versions have the same case head, too.

I don't think that rounding down the dimensions would be advisable thing to do, in case of a protest as to the originality of the cartridge. The .400 case head with a ~.494 rim is a established cartridge case size. Stevens also uses it for other cartridges. I make my 32/35's by swaging down the case head of a 30/30.

Frank
  
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #6 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:43pm
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SAAMI pressure level for this cartridge is set at 48,000 pounds per square inch.  So with a BP charge - No pressure issues.
It is a .357 Magnum case lengthened 0.300 inches.  Based on the .357 Magnum cartridge,  the .357 Max can fire .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .38 Long Colt, and .38 Short Colt rounds.

Standard 357 Magnum BP Load:  25gr FFFg with a 160gr bullet = 1100 fps
  
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #7 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 3:58pm
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frnkeore wrote on Nov 27th, 2015 at 1:33pm:
I don't know where Steve was getting his info on the 35/30 Maynard but, my info has the 1882 version, 35/30 Maynard with a .400 case head and a .494 rim diameter, same as the 32/35 Stevens/Maynard. The 1873 & 1865 35/30 versions have the same case head, too.

I don't think that rounding down the dimensions would be advisable thing to do, in case of a protest as to the originality of the cartridge. The .400 case head with a ~.494 rim is a established cartridge case size. Stevens also uses it for other cartridges. I make my 32/35's by swaging down the case head of a 30/30.

Frank

The 38 Extra Long centerfire cartridge is shown as one of the available chamberings for the Win Single Shot rifle in the Oct 1886 WRA catalog, but the 35-30 Maynard cartridge didn't make the list.
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #8 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 4:56pm
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The .357 Max is almost a dead ringer for the 38 Ballard Extra Long cartridge. It can be fired in the 38 Extra Long chamber at black powder pressures with no problems. The 35/30 Maynard cartridge is about .025" larger diameter. The .357 Max cartridge should not be fired in a 35/30 Maynard chamber. Both cartridges are about the same length. Garbe must have been inferring that it was a ballistic equal to the 35/30 Maynard.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #9 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 5:56pm
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I think it would probably be safe to fire, even a 357 Max in that 38 XL barrel. The .358, Max bullet won't have any resistance in the .375/.380 groove of the 38 XL. Even the bore (land to land) size will be over .358 in the 38 XL.

Frank
  
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #10 - Nov 27th, 2015 at 11:57pm
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Goatwhiskers wrote on Nov 26th, 2015 at 7:24pm:
Gotta do something about crazy ideas that pop into my head.  What would I be getting into by trying holy black in my Cadet .357Max, outside of the aggravation of bore cleaning?  Probably would use a RD190gr bullet.  GW


I shot 3f black in my 357 max handi rifle with 170 gr lead bullets.  Pressure didn't build high enough to seal the case to the chamber walls and I got lots of fouling back into the chamber.  After a few rounds the fouling got to the point the rifle would not eject the round.
   
I gave up on it and had the rifle relined to a 38-40.  That round works very well with black!!
  
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #11 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 3:37am
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What are you guys using these little BP rounds for? Hunting, target shooting, plinking?

       Joe.
  
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BP
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #12 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 5:33pm
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Joe,

All three, and having fun making smoke.
Plus, I like to see what the chronograph has to say about load combinations that only the old WRA catalogs and early Ideal handbooks mention.      Smiley
  
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #13 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 5:46pm
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They do sound like fun for sure. 

     Joe.
  
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Weird ideas
Reply #14 - Nov 28th, 2015 at 7:46pm
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Long ag, 1950s, I cut my "BP" teeth on a 32-20 Winchester LW. Decades later I got a 44-40 M92 and put thousands of BP loads through it. For anything closer than 150M I never wanted for any thing more. IF I had a 40 caliber barrel I would turn to 38-40 with no qualms. The bugs were worked out of those, and many other, small BP rifle cartridges back in late 1800s.

Grisen
  
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